FXpansion releases Cypher2

[liquid234]

Hi all,

@liquid234 @stefken Support team are definitely the best bet for that, let me know if you don't hear back by end of day tomorrow and I'll chase them up.

Hello! Thanks for the reply. Turns out the solution was simple yet tricky. On the iPad settings had to turn off JavaScript, then turn it back on for the “i am not a robot!” thingy to show up.

Then able to get the great deal on the great Cypher 2. After 5 minutes of demo, it was obvious that C2 has “it”. It’s a rare synth that can do both intimate and huge equally well, both rough grit and super-fine grain. Plus, I’m a sucker for morphing synths. And oh yea... 5D!

Thanks again for the help everyone.

[Stefken]

1) not likely, although other ways to view the state of it (e.g. list all modulation) is something we're looking at

Another way to VIEW the modulations was also my main objective.
With the transmod system you have to hoover over every 'box' to see where there are modulation assignments while in a list you see them immediately.

[pdxindy]

Isn't it!

Now we can 'paint' modulation freely on the actual GUI, and the process of tweaking the base parameters and applying modulation is one and the same. Simple and fast.
Whereas the 'mod matrix' divides the process of tweaking the parameters and applying modulation into two separate activities. A mod matrix requires us to jump between two completely different ways of scultping the sound. So, I can be tweaking the filter cutoff on the main GUI panel, but to modulate it with an LFO, I need to turn my attention into a spreadsheet-like box and spend my time hunting for mod sources and mod destinations. An archaic approach that should be phased out. It was a great idea on hardware synths but in software, I feel it's had its day.

The Transmod system is a step forward in one area... but a step backwards in another...

The advantage of the Mod Matrix is that you can see a bunch of modulations all in one place... the Transmod system is poor in this regard...

While you can adjust filter cutoff and LFO modulation easily together, it is not so easy to adjust 2 modulators... so if Cutoff has both an Envelope and an LFO, I have to switch back and forth between Transmod slots over and over to edit them in relation to each other...

Once a bunch of Transmod slots are active (modulating something) there is no visual cue what is modulating what. Maybe I have to hover over 3,4, or more slots before I even find the one that is modulating the parameter I want to adjust. That is a frustrating amount of wasted movement stumbling around.

I like the transmod concept, but it currently has its drawbacks too... It requires too much mental attention to keep track of things because those connections are not readily visible in the GUI. Some Mod Matrixes may not be faster, but they are less trouble and more sure.

[himalaya]

1) not likely, although other ways to view the state of it (e.g. list all modulation) is something we're looking at

Another way to VIEW the modulations was also my main objective.
With the transmod system you have to hoover over every 'box' to see where there are modulation assignments while in a list you see them immediately.

A list of modulations has been suggested a long time ago (actually, by yours truly).
But it really takes no time at all to hover above the TransMod slots and see what they are doing. Imagine some of the Mod Matrix systems which are spread across multiple tabs, it's no faster to see what such a Mod Matrix does than the TransMod.

I also realise that I am biased in that, I don't really need to see and inspect these mod windows. I make a sound and move on. But I do realise that there will be people who would like to learn maybe and inspect patches and how they are made. However even in this context, TransMod is also easy to work with.

Take this example: we want to see what the LFO is assigned to. It does some cool modulation and seems like the mod assignment is complex. So we hover above the LFO Mod Slot that is of the light grey colour (it could be any LFO, 1 2, or subs) and see virtually all the stuff it is modulating. So this single LFO mod window could be assigned to many parameters. Let's say for argument's sake, that it's assigned to 5 parameters at once. That's one mod source to 5 mod destinations but you can see it all at a glance. One easy view.

But now, let's change this illustration and imagine that it is actually a Mod Matrix. Now, with the mod matrix we need 5 LFO mod sources each assigned to individual mod destinations. So 5 sources to 5 destinations....now, if the Mod Matrix has many tabs, these could be dispersed amongst however many tabs there are, so it could be that we never get to see what the LFO is controlling in one easy view, even in this Mod Matrix that apparently should make it easy for us to see everything. So we go through the tabs, looking for the LFOs...but with the TransMod, we don't have to do that. Hover on the LFO mod window and instantly see ALL that it's modulating. It really is so easy.

This wall of text makes it more complex to explain than it is in reality.

[aMUSEd]

Is there a good tutorial video for the transmod in Cypher?

[himalaya]

The advantage of the Mod Matrix is that you can see a bunch of modulations all in one place... the Transmod system is poor in this regard...

But that's not true at all. See my post above. A Mod Matrix may have stuff thrown across several tabs and it does not make it easy to find all the mod sources and see at a glance what they are controlling.

While you can adjust filter cutoff and LFO modulation easily together, it is not so easy to adjust 2 modulators... so if Cutoff has both an Envelope and an LFO, I have to switch back and forth between Transmod slots over and over to edit them in relation to each other...

But you have to do the same with the Mod Matrix. You also have to move between two rows within the Mod Matrix. And should these rows be on different tabs in the Mod matrix than you have even more clicking to do than with TransMod.

However the huge advantage of the TransMod system in this example is that, continuing your example, once I click the ENVELOPE mod slot which is controlling the cutoff, I can adjust anything and everything else the ENV is modulating. And usually that's what I need to do. Whereas with the Mod Matrix I'd need to find each instance of the ENV in this archaic spreadsheet list and edit it one by one. Soo, so slow. It hurts even if I think about it.

Once a bunch of Transmod slots are active (modulating something) there is no visual cue what is modulating what. Maybe I have to hover over 3,4, or more slots before I even find the one that is modulating the parameter I want to adjust. That is a frustrating amount of wasted movement stumbling around.

You have no visual cue what all Mod Matrix entires are modulating either. But you don't need to do what you just illustrated above. If you want to find what mod slot is controlling the cutoff, as an example, simply hover above the cutoff and all the mod slots that are assigned to it will light up!
So, if you hover above the filter cutoff and you see LFO, ENV, Strike, KeyZone mod slots light up, but you know that you wanted to edit the ENV, then you go to the ENV mod slot. So fast and easy. Where is the issue here!

[pdxindy]

I also realise that I am biased in that, I don't really need to see and inspect these mod windows. I make a sound and move on. But I do realise that there will be people who would like to learn maybe and inspect patches and how they are made. However even in this context, TransMod is also easy to work with.

I believe you that it is easy for you... but other people work differently and process info differently. I'm not finding it particularly easy to understand what is going on in a patch. Cypher lives up to its name!

You are right there are problems with Mod Matrices. Tabs are annoying. Having to select the same source again to assign more targets can be improved too. I like the one to many rather than one to one approach.

On the otherhand, the Transmod system is kind of like a mod matrix with 24 tabs and each tab has one source with unlimited target slots.

[himalaya]

I'm not finding it particularly easy to understand what is going on in a patch. Cypher lives up to its name!

Ok. So you would like to inspect existing sounds and see how they are made, right? I'm asking since would there be a need to inspect how a patch you just edited is made? Probably not, I'd guess.

So if you want to inspect existing sounds there is a thought process involved. That is, we know what we want to inspect in the sound. Right? As an example, if I play a sound and hear that it has some cool LFO motion, I'd want to go and see what the LFO is doing. So I click on the LFO mod slot that is of the light grey (which means that it is assigned and doing something), and once selected I can see ALL that it is controlling. So easy.

But let's reverse it. I play a sound and see that the FM knobs have lots of visual cue. There is lots assigned to one FM knob. So I hover above it and see three Mod Slots light up. That means that there are three mod slots I need to inspect, but now that I know what they are, I know what modulation sources are modulating this FM knob. Again, so easy. It is.

Each example shows everything instantly. But then, let's take a synth with 5 (that's five) Mod matrix tabs ( I won't name names). It will take forever (compared to the TransMod) to see what's what.
A mod matrix is good if it's one tab, other than that its not good. But with one tab, we can't do much as we are limited to simple mod assignments. Not nice! Then, the Mod Matrix completely fails at the main attraction of the TransMod: select a mod source and literally paint modulation across all the knobs you see on the GUI!
This really needs to be shown in a video how a sound can be edited in a few seconds with the TransMod and how sloooow it takes with the ModMatrix.

[zvenx]

I think, like Stefken did for his skin, if the modulation ring were in a completely different obvious colour that doesn't blend in with the background it will make TransMod so much easier to use or at least understand.
rsp

[himalaya]

As a personal note from me as a user, I'm always on a search for the most intuitive modulation systems. This is because 'modulation' is the key in sound design, as we all know so well. So, with all the various systems that I've used, I've never found better systems that the TransMod and the one used in Alchemy. Neither is perfect, we can agree on that, but there is nothing better. That is, nothing better if I want to design a sound in an easy, intuitive manner without having to step away from tweaking parameters and having to enter a spreadsheet-like box, which is the ModMatrix.

By the way, the Alchemy mod system is the reverse of the Transmod system. So in TransMod we go to the modulation source and then have access to everything on the GUI, or we can modulate everything on the GUI. Whereas with Alchemy we go to any knob on the GUI, the modulation destination, right click it and then have access to all the mod sources.

Neither system breaks the sound design process by asking us to move away from the main synth parameters and enter a separate box (ie: a mod matrix). And one of my main issues with the Mod Matrix design is that it destroys the sound design 'flow' by asking us to wade through lists of lists for the mod sources and mod destinations...stepping away from the main GUI where all the parameters are, which we were tweaking, but now we can't because we need to enter the Mod Matrix. It's so archaic. A shame that more people don't see it.

[Stefken]

I also realise that I am biased in that, I don't really need to see and inspect these mod windows. I make a sound and move on. But I do realise that there will be people who would like to learn maybe and inspect patches and how they are made.

Yes, you are biased. That being said it would be a good thing to have a visual cue when a slot in the transmod has modulations assigned (say a background color).
That way you can instantly spot them and you don't need to hoover over all of them.

》 feature request

Personally, i'm fine with reading 5 lines describing the modulations via Lfo1 for example. I would sort this mod list so that all entries for e.g lfo1 as input parameter are together so you don't have to look for all instances for lfo 1 in that list.

[zvenx]

A......
By the way, the Alchemy mod system is the reverse of the Transmod system. So in TransMod we go to the modulation source and then have access to everything on the GUI, or we can modulate everything on the GUI. Whereas with Alchemy we go to any knob on the GUI, the modulation destination, right click it and then have access to all the mod sources.
........

EH, I keep wondering why you keep singling out Alchemy.
I think Omnisphere was released before and to my novice sound designer eye, all of these have a similar method (which I definitely prefer)

I think the question :
What do I want to modulate and with what, always comes to me first rather than, What do I want to modulate this with (which to me is the question transmod asks)

[zvenx]

And of course the one you mentioned Alchemy.
rsp

[himalaya]

I also realise that I am biased in that, I don't really need to see and inspect these mod windows. I make a sound and move on. But I do realise that there will be people who would like to learn maybe and inspect patches and how they are made.

Yes, you are biased. That being said it would be a good thing to have a visual cue when a slot in the transmod has modulations assigned (say a background color).
That way you can instantly spot them and you don't need to hoover over all of them.

But there is a visual cue when a slot in the transmod has modulations assigned! Open any preset and see the two different shades of grey. The light grey tells you that the mod slot is assigned! It is all there. your feature request is already implemented. How did you miss it? It's in front of you!

See this image. The arrows point to the light grey mod slots, which are assigned:

Personally, i'm fine with reading 5 lines describing the modulations via Lfo1 for example.

If these are thrown around many tabs? TransMod is much faster to see what is going on I can assure you of that.

[himalaya]

EH, I keep wondering why you keep singling out Alchemy.
I think Omnisphere was released before and to my novice sound designer eye, all of these have a similar method (which I definitely prefer)

I keep mentioning Alchemy because for me it was the first example of this right click, and the first design done right. Maybe Omnisphere came out just before Alchemy 1, but, I never used it at that time, and crucially, it misses the main attraction of how Alchemy does it: the right-click mod assignment opens a modulation panel each time, where further mod edits can be done. This mod panel shows all the mod destinations assigned to the knob. (it's the reverse of the TransMod! How amazing!). But more importantly, this mod panel follows every mod assignment you make. It's interactive. You have used Alchemy, right? Haven't you noticed this? It's a HUGE feature as it makes moving around an otherwise complex GUI and all the modulation, very simple.

Omnisphere 2 added a similar feature, so add an LFO to the cutoff and an LFO panel opens on the left. But the similarity stops here, since this LFO panel sits there until I close it. With Alchemy a similar panel will always auto show me each knob's assignments (if clicked).

I think the question :
What do I want to modulate and with what, always comes to me first rather than, What do I want to modulate this with (which to me is the question transmod asks)

A great point. That is one reason why I consider this right-click method a great system too. It accommodates this thought process well.