Record: New DAW from Propellerheads

[John Vulich]

It would be one hell of a huge project to create a 400meg file. Like nearly an hour & a half of pure audio.

Are you joking? A 400mb audio project is nothing. Mono 44.1 is 5 mb per minute so when you start getting into the higher sample rates it's quite easy to have hundreds of mb of audio in a project with multiple takes.

44.1 * 24 mono tracks in a 5 minute song = 25mb per track X 24 tracks. Do the math. One mono take per track of continuous "live band recording".

Then do it again at 88.2 (12 tracks) or 96k (fewer still). Then make some of those tracks stereo. Then do a second take of the tracks to double the needed disk space. Then do 10 harmonies of backing vox.

You must be joking. You obviously don't record much multi-track audio. My Cubase sessions routinely go into the GB ranges which is why I backup to DVD and not CD... many won't fit on a single 700mb CD.

This is a multitrack audio recorder right?

400MB is roughly 40 mins of 44.1Khz stereo. When compressed by halve it becomes 80 mins of audio. I doubt that there'd be many people composing tracks more than 30 mins long.

If you want to use 24/96 then you pay the penalty of larger file sizes. 400MB will get you about 20 mins of 24/96 compressed.

You really don't understand the concept of "multi-track" in the least bit... do you?

[Amberience]

I really don't see how the Props are going to survive in the long term. All of Reason's modules are completely obsolete by today, there are free VSTs that do what any Reason component does (not to mention the vastly superior commercial products). This Record thing seems to be for novice producers/songwriters to get introduced into the recording world, or Reason users. Why would anybody with a serious DAW switch to Record? Props should have turned themselves into a company that makes crucial plugins. A good enough plugin can sell for $250 on the market. Why make a limited "host" for a very limited subset of people. Why make software that can record but can barely manipulate the recording? I mean what are you people seeing in this product that I am not (besides the interesting timestretch, which isn't enough to warrant a switch). This type of bad strategy is exactly why Reason fell behind from its glory days. I hoped to get something special from the Props but this is certainly not it.

Why make music? None of us are going to make money from it, so why bother?

[bpoteat]

Why are people bitching about the "Ignition Key"?

I don't think it's hard to understand at all. Imagine if every app you used required this kind of interaction. You may think it's trivial but if you use other software besides just that one, it would become a huge hassle. Many software companies, not just music sw, who previously used dongles have gotten away from them for a reason - they are just impractical for users.

And like I said, I have a ton of hardware connected and now have to make sure to always have an open input for that thing. Just another hassle.

If you have a ton of hardware connected to your workstation, then your workstation is likely not mobile. Therefore, you have even more incentive to simply use the Ignition Key -- or not. The maths on that is not hard.

Ok, I guess some people just can't be convinced how bad dongles are. There are numerous reasons to not use them - the only valid reason to use them is to keep people from pirating your SW - and history has shown that it doesn't do that very well either.

I can certainly tell you this - if I did ever use dongle-locked software, I would HATE to be the guy on the other end of the support call when I am getting all my equipment set up for a gig and realize that I can't find my stupid little "Ignition Key". Actually, even typing that out I realize it won't ever happen. I will not rely on dongle-locked SW. If I did use it, it would always be just for background support (and probably wouldn't cost $300)

[Muzik 4 Machines]

Why are people bitching about the "Ignition Key"?

beacause i have 2 f**king USB ports and my soundcars doesnt support hubs, nor does my midi controller, so i personally think its a shitty move from propellerheads
plus, how easy is it to steal the dongle while i'm playing live, like pretty much child's game, same reason i stopped giging with cubase after my dongle's been whacked by a moron from the back of my laptop

[zion7]

I really don't see how the Props are going to survive in the long term. All of Reason's modules are completely obsolete by today, there are free VSTs that do what any Reason component does (not to mention the vastly superior commercial products). This Record thing seems to be for novice producers/songwriters to get introduced into the recording world, or Reason users. Why would anybody with a serious DAW switch to Record? Props should have turned themselves into a company that makes crucial plugins. A good enough plugin can sell for $250 on the market. Why make a limited "host" for a very limited subset of people. Why make software that can record but can barely manipulate the recording? I mean what are you people seeing in this product that I am not (besides the interesting timestretch, which isn't enough to warrant a switch). This type of bad strategy is exactly why Reason fell behind from its glory days. I hoped to get something special from the Props but this is certainly not it.

Why make music? None of us are going to make money from it, so why bother?

??
I don't follow. And I've made some money from music. Not a ton but some.

[John Vulich]

Anyway... there are lots of issues with VST plugins that make them poor candidates for Record/Reason integration. We can skip the the tired stability argument and consider another example:

The rack paradigm. All Reason devices have a fixed width, adhere to the same scale and live in the same 'physical' space. VST plugins on the other hand can look like anything.

Funny, Ableton seems to have overcome these concerns. They have both a built in interface component for plugins and a separate window.

[Kmeister]

I am honestly suprised that such an anticlimactic event generated 44 pages of back'n'forth

this time

[Ubiety]

Its just that when you hype yourself up with something as REVOLUTIONARY and you show a video of a guitar being recorded and timestretched like Ableton, it makes one question their business model. If that's the best they could come up with to stay relevant, I am not impressed.

The point is: Your logic states that because a product is irrelevant to you, the product is also irrelevant to every other living person on Earth, and therefore the manufacturer of said product will go out of business not only because of its irrelevancy, but also because you question the company's business model.

Sorry, boss. That's the logic of bozos.

[Ubiety]

Why are people bitching about the "Ignition Key"?

beacause i have 2 f**king USB ports and my soundcars doesnt support hubs, nor does my midi controller, so i personally think its a shitty move from propellerheads
plus, how easy is it to steal the dongle while i'm playing live, like pretty much child's game, same reason i stopped giging with cubase after my dongle's been whacked by a moron from the back of my laptop

Yeah, I guess you have to watch out for those pickpockets who share the stage with you.

[DRS]

I bet there are a hell of a lot more music dabblers than there are serious electronic musicians and it seems like Record is aimed at them and the Garage Band set. My guess is we're the smaller of the subsets. Funny, I have a friend who's about as pro as they get (ten years ago he made his own hardware DAW) and he uses Garageband all the time. He says it's usually just what he needs and nothing else. Not my cup of tea, but I can see the allure of a simple tool for a simple job.

+1

I think that all the ppl complaining about Record would be happier if they just stick to whatever they use or like.

What struck me the most is that all the whiners cannot see Record as just another tool. They just have the urge to come over KVR/Props forum or other forums just to bash whatever they don't like about the software (which they won't buy nor use anyway...).

We've seen this kind of attitude for pretty much any VST plugin, DAW and whatnot. Sure, everyone is entitled for an opinion (this is the internet, after all), but anyway, i really don't know what drives the horde of whiners to take their time just to say so many negative things about something they will probably NEVER buy or use.

I own Live Suite 8 and Reason 4 and, in my opinion, Record might be a nice addition. I see it as just another software that i might or not buy in the future and that's it. People get too personal about their software to a point they think they know what a company should or shouldn't do to please their gigantic ego (or else they'll just need to brag in caps: "FU, you'll never see my money again").

I've said this before: nobody is gonna put a gun in your head to buy Record (and even if someone does, we already know that you whiners out there would rather pull the trigger instead of buying it).

I suppose that it all boils down to this:

* don't buy Record
* don't buy Reason

But that's just asking too much, no?

[TristezaOrange]

Does ReCord even run on Windows? In every video I see it is running on Macs.

[robogone]

I am honestly suprised that such an anticlimactic event generated 44 pages of back'n'forth

Hi! Welcome to KVR!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[John Vulich]

Just one question, which I can't understand. Why not a ReWire Master, if a ReWire Slave is acceptable ?

I honestly don't know. Never asked, never wondered, probably some technical issue that may or may not make sense to non-developers. But you can probably get an answer on the Record beta forum...

Don't both FL-Studio and Live (and probably others) work in both Slave and Master mode? Strange that third party companies can work out these technical issues but the people that actually developed Rewire can't.

[Cryogenic]

Funny, Ableton seems to have overcome these concerns. They have both a built in interface component for plugins and a separate window.

Call me when Ableton overcomes the workflow concern.