Wotja 22 - Generative Music App & Plug-in Host (Free, Pro; AUv3 / VST3)

[impete]

but are the embedded plug UIs supposed to display themselves when the user switches back to the Music tab, or Display tab, or Text tab, for example? that seems like a bug that needs to be fixed.

A good question.

No, they can only display when in the plug-ins tab (when you select it for edit).

For me to create code that could "manage" the UI real-estate such that I could display a panel with embedded Plug-in that were visible in each of the tabs, is (alas) beyond my poor coding brain at this point.

Best wishes, Pete

[JamminFool]

but are the embedded plug UIs supposed to display themselves when the user switches back to the Music tab, or Display tab, or Text tab, for example? that seems like a bug that needs to be fixed.

A good question.

No, they can only display when in the plug-ins tab (when you select it for edit).

For me to create code that could "manage" the UI real-estate such that I could display a panel with embedded Plug-in that were visible in each of the tabs, is (alas) beyond my poor coding brain at this point.

Best wishes, Pete

but pete, that is what i am saying. you say they should not, but they currently do, and it makes the other tabs basically unuseable. please try it to see what i mean:

1) turn on the Embed Host plug-ins setting
2) open a VST3.
3) press the Music tab button.
4) see the VST UI glued in place on the Music tab
5) same prob for the other tabs

[impete]

but are the embedded plug UIs supposed to display themselves when the user switches back to the Music tab, or Display tab, or Text tab, for example? that seems like a bug that needs to be fixed.

A good question.

No, they can only display when in the plug-ins tab (when you select it for edit).

For me to create code that could "manage" the UI real-estate such that I could display a panel with embedded Plug-in that were visible in each of the tabs, is (alas) beyond my poor coding brain at this point.

Best wishes, Pete

but pete, that is what i am saying. you say they should not, but they currently do, and it makes the other tabs basically unuseable. please try it to see what i mean:

1) turn on the Embed Host plug-ins setting
2) open a VST3.
3) press the Music tab button.
4) see the VST UI glued in place on the Music tab
5) same prob for the other tabs

OK, understood. I can't really test this right now, as I'm mid-way through editing a far-distant part of the system, but will be sure to look!

Pete

[zzz00m]

Can you please verify once more that this is working for you in Wotja Pro 22.1.0? I would really appreciate it since I think I may be going crazy.

You originally had agreed that the 22.0.11 had broken it after being fixed in 22.0.10 (if you recall, we had cross-posted on page 40 of this thread) but when I reported that recently here in this thread, you posted that you had it working.

Currently I can not get it to work even though the Experimental Engine is off in Waveform Pro.

It's not just you!

I have not had any much luck with Waveform VST3 since 22.0.10, with either 22.0.11 or 22.1.0.

But I have since narrowed down my issues with 22.1.0 to my particular audio interface driver thread in my DAW program (using Windows Sysinternals Process Monitor, Threads view), that is not affecting another user at all, who is using a different brand of interface and driver.

Out of curiosity what audio interface are you using on your computer?

[JamminFool]

@zzz00m,
thanks for the reply!

i'm using a Yamaha AG06 usually, but often also just use my laptop's Realtek sound with ASIO4All. And I have even tested it using Windows Audio. None of these send more than channel 1 in the case of sending the MIDI straight to another track in Waveform (ie. without the use of a Tracktion Rack). And I am using Wotja Pro now, so it should work, but it doesn't.

I saw your setup in the screen-shot you posted where it worked in v22.0.10 so I know it was fixed and worked in that version, but I am pretty sure that something went wrong from v22.0.11 on...

I just need someone to verify that it is broken so we can get Pete to take another look.

[zzz00m]

None of these send more than channel 1 in the case of sending the MIDI straight to another track in Waveform (ie. without the use of a Tracktion Rack). And I am using Wotja Pro now, so it should work, but it doesn't.

I saw your setup in the screen-shot you posted where it worked in v22.0.10 so I know it was fixed and worked in that version, but I am pretty sure that something went wrong from v22.0.11 on...

I was just testing another JUCE based host 'Kushview Element', that wasn't routing MIDI correctly for the Wotja VST3, until I inserted 'MIDI Polysher' (virtual patchbay) in the MIDI chain. Then all MIDI channels started routing correctly again.

I'm not sure why, but just inserting 'MIDI Polysher' as the 'man in the middle' of the MIDI link without any options set, seems to stabilize the MIDI data somehow. You might try including 'MIDI Polysher' within a rack setup. https://www.eareckon.com/en/products/freebies.html

[JamminFool]

None of these send more than channel 1 in the case of sending the MIDI straight to another track in Waveform (ie. without the use of a Tracktion Rack). And I am using Wotja Pro now, so it should work, but it doesn't.

I saw your setup in the screen-shot you posted where it worked in v22.0.10 so I know it was fixed and worked in that version, but I am pretty sure that something went wrong from v22.0.11 on...

I was just testing another JUCE based host 'Kushview Element', that wasn't routing MIDI correctly for the Wotja VST3, until I inserted 'MIDI Polysher' (virtual patchbay) in the MIDI chain. Then all MIDI channels started routing correctly again.

I'm not sure why, but just inserting 'MIDI Polysher' as the 'man in the middle' of the MIDI link without any options set, seems to stabilize the MIDI data somehow. You might try including 'MIDI Polysher' within a rack setup. https://www.eareckon.com/en/products/freebies.html

yes, but i would rather track it down to get it fixed if it is an issue in Wotja. In the thread about this issue over on the Tracktion forum, Jules (Tracktion founder and chief Tracktioneer ) stated that different hosts treat "bad" MIDI messages differently, and that Tracktion was probably throwing away the MIDI that did not conform. In the case of Wotja, it was assumed to be the MIDI timing offsets. Pete had then released the 22.0.10 immediately after that. This was the version which you demonstrated that it worked.

I think that there was a regression in Wotja 22.0.11 and that it remains in v22.1.0.

My theory is that MIDI Polysher is "fixing" (polishing) these "bad" MIDI messages and that is why you are seeing it work again when it is placed in the middle.

I would like to use these observations to convince Pete to take another look at this issue in Wotja, so that the use of a utility in the middle is unnecessary. There is no reason it should not work in Waveform with the latest version of Wotja, if it worked in a previous version.

[zzz00m]

I think that there was a regression in Wotja 22.0.11 and that it remains in v22.1.0.

My theory is that MIDI Polysher is "fixing" (polishing) these "bad" MIDI messages and that is why you are seeing it work again when it is placed in the middle.

I would like to use these observations to convince Pete to take another look at this issue in Wotja, so that the use of a utility in the middle is unnecessary. There is no reason it should not work in Waveform with the latest version of Wotja, if it worked in a previous version.

Certainly!

But don't you think that at least testing the theory with MIDI Polysher (not suggested as a fix) would add more data to the observations. Potentially leading to a quicker fix.

[zzz00m]

dupe [deleted]

[JamminFool]

I think that there was a regression in Wotja 22.0.11 and that it remains in v22.1.0.

My theory is that MIDI Polysher is "fixing" (polishing) these "bad" MIDI messages and that is why you are seeing it work again when it is placed in the middle.

I would like to use these observations to convince Pete to take another look at this issue in Wotja, so that the use of a utility in the middle is unnecessary. There is no reason it should not work in Waveform with the latest version of Wotja, if it worked in a previous version.

Certainly!

But don't you think that at least testing the theory with MIDI Polysher (not suggested as a fix) would add more data to the observations. Potentially leading to a quicker fix.

sorry, of course. i didn't mean to imply otherwise.

i just meant that i already know that it does not work in the current version of Wotja. I was just hoping that someone else would verify it for me to give it enough weight to convince Pete to take another look.

i generally don;t like to install and use extra layers of software on my system, especially when the software I already use should work as intended.

having said that, i will take a look at the link you provided. thanks!

[JamminFool]

@zzz00m,
ok, i installed Polysher and it does not fix the problem in Wotja.

EDIT: i DO notice that it makes the MIDI timing offsets in the sending and receiving tracks match, though. they don't match when not passed through Polysher. but it still maps all the MIDI channel 2 data to MIDI channel 1 (at least it looks that way, although i'm not sure if it gets mapped to channel 1 or just gets stripped)

can you please verify that Wotja is no longer working in Waveform for the simple case of sending the midi from one track containing Wotja 22.1.0 to a second track containing Kontakt.

MIDI Monitor on both tracks clearly shows that only MIDI channel 1 data arrives on the second track.

[zzz00m]

can you please verify that Wotja is no longer working in Waveform for the simple case of sending the midi from one track containing Wotja 22.1.0 to a second track containing Kontakt.

MIDI Monitor on both tracks clearly shows that only MIDI channel 1 data arrives on the second track.

Well at least you tried!

As far as the simple case of sending the MIDI in Waveform from the Wotja 22.1.0 track to another multi-timbral instrument set to receive on ch 1-4, I am seeing ch 1-4 notes on/off data briefly, than it all goes away after a few bars.

Then while the Waveform transport continues to plays silently, the MIDI sometimes resumes for a second or two, but soon I have other issues where my CPU starts redlining a single core and causes a Tracktion halt. Reset, resume...same thing. But for me it's not just Tracktion. All of my DAWs except for Ableton are acting up now with 22.1.0.

[ValliSoftware]

Thanks Pete.
I followed your instructions and got them into my Wotja 22 Pro.
Wotja Flow Updated.png

Hi! I know this is too late to help you , but we've created a zip of the old Flows for anybody else who wants them.

https://intermorphic.com/help/#content-rp-21-6

With best wishes, Pete

This does help me out, I got my Version 20 over but not Version 21.
I just installed your zip file, now I have a ton of flows.

Flows.png

[impete]

can you please verify that Wotja is no longer working in Waveform for the simple case of sending the midi from one track containing Wotja 22.1.0 to a second track containing Kontakt.

MIDI Monitor on both tracks clearly shows that only MIDI channel 1 data arrives on the second track.

Well at least you tried!

As far as the simple case of sending the MIDI in Waveform from the Wotja 22.1.0 track to another multi-timbral instrument set to receive on ch 1-4, I am seeing ch 1-4 notes on/off data briefly, than it all goes away after a few bars.

Then while the Waveform transport continues to plays silently, the MIDI sometimes resumes for a second or two, but soon I have other issues where my CPU starts redlining a single core and causes a Tracktion halt. Reset, resume...same thing. But for me it's not just Tracktion. All of my DAWs except for Ableton are acting up now with 22.1.0.

This is all so puzzling.

However, I had a light-bulb moment, and have just dug-back to a report last month from a Wotja Beta tester, for whom MIDI routing simply wasn't working.

The solution - bizarrely - was as simple as this:
"I just uninstalled LoopBE and now MIDI routing with the Wotja plugin works again!"

I hope that helps. I certainly can't explain why it would have helped, but it resolved the problem.

Software is so complex, and systems are so complex, and their interactions can be unpredictable. When you add real-time behaviour into the mix, the number of things that could potentially "go wrong" are off the charts. It is amazing that, by and large, so many audio components work so well together. I guess that is testament to the excellent work of developers of the VST format, the Audio Unit format, and all the DAW and plug-in developers out there.

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

Thanks Pete.
I followed your instructions and got them into my Wotja 22 Pro.
Wotja Flow Updated.png

Hi! I know this is too late to help you , but we've created a zip of the old Flows for anybody else who wants them.

https://intermorphic.com/help/#content-rp-21-6

With best wishes, Pete

This does help me out, I got my Version 20 over but not Version 21.
I just installed your zip file, now I have a ton of flows.
Flows.png

That is a lot of flows

Very happy to have helped - and happy Wotja-ing

Best wishes, Pete