PG-8X (2.0) released

[rasmusklump]

Sorry, evildragon is right.
The vst2 work natively but SB try hard to forbid it.

[AndrewLMacaulay]

So why do, from everything I've read, all the other DAWs have the same issue? and have you managed to get Intel-based VST3s running in any DAW running in native (non-Rosetta) mode?

[rasmusklump]

It's a big difference between having issues and doing what SBs lawyers say.

[AndrewLMacaulay]

OK, I have now found *one* exception to this rule - FL Studio 20.9 which seems to offer a bridging mode to provide backwards compatibility (probably similar to x86 support for x64 machines) but with the caveat "The downsides are 3rd party VST plugins will need to run in the FL Studio process bridge and this can use some more CPU and may be less stable than native Apple Silicon software." but I have not found any other DAWs providing such bridging options for native mode.

So it sounds like Cubase's decision not to providing this sort of bridging is more a quality/complexity concern, and maybe there will be some third parties that offer this sort of bridging for other DAWs.

[EvilDragon]

Reaper also has a bridge between x86 to ARM, so VST2s will work on M1 too. Also IIRC reading somewhere, FabFilter made their VST2 plugins M1 native.

[NikkiA]

(1) VST2 plugins are ONLY available for Intel chips

Utter nonsense, there were, and still are, VST2s for PPC macs

[AndrewLMacaulay]

OK - I had not found that info for Reaper (I did look but did not find it) - and you're 100% correct about PPC versions of VSTs, although I'm not sure how many people still use PPC macs these days (which is why I did not include them) nor how old the PPC versions must be.

My main point still stands, that VST2 plugins are only available for Intel (and PPC) and there is no official/supported VST2 SDK for ARM and therefore no way to (easily) deliver M1 native VST2 plugins --- albeit with maybe FabFilter having found some way around this, although their tech specs look unclear to me around this one way or the other, as they seem to have VST3 versions of everything already and their news release could be read either way.

As this seems like a minefield, maybe there is an opportunity for someone to build up and maintain a clear and complete list of DAWs on Mac that (1) support M1 native mode together with (2) what plugins in what modes they support directly or via bridging, (3) how they behave in Rosetta mode and (4) what, if any, other limitations they may have with regards to running of Intel-based VST2, VST3 and AAX plugins.


And let's rephrase the original ask: "as VST2 is a long-deprecated technology which is being removed over the coming 24 months from Cubase's products and has challenges on many current DAWs running natively on Apple silicon, how do we help move PG-X8 on to a platform that is able to support the new standards for both Windows and Mac."

[rasmusklump]

Your point still doesn't stand.
It's purely a business decision from Steinberg not to allow it and not a technical restriction.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Studio One also has VST2 support with Apple Silicon. The only DAW I know that had it before and doesn't now is Cubase.

There are hundreds of VST2 ARM native plugins on my Mac. There's nothing about VST2 that prevents ARM compatible plugins. Most developers use third-party (JUCE, iPlug) or home rolled frameworks for developing plugins - and these can clearly compile ARM VST plugins.

Andrew, I'm sorry, you're just misinformed. Don't get your information exclusively from Steinberg and you'll get a much more accurate picture.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

Your point still doesn't stand.
It's purely a business decision from Steinberg not to allow it and not a technical restriction.

They are still pulling the plug, though. Once their so-called transition period ends, they plan to withdraw as many VST2 licenses as they can possibly get away with. The deadline is real, and not just in Steinberg hosts.

[Markus Krause]

M1 native can support VST2, it's just that Steinberg decided THEY won't be supporting VST2 in their hosts on M1.

Confirmed.

VST2 plugins are ONLY available for Intel chips.VST2 plugins can never be recompiled to be MacOS M1 native;

No. This isn't true. I was able to compile my VST2 plugins to M1 native with only a few changes. But there need to be also DAWs that support it.

It's purely a business decision from Steinberg not to allow it and not a technical restriction.

Confirmed.

[rasmusklump]

Your point still doesn't stand.
It's purely a business decision from Steinberg not to allow it and not a technical restriction.

They are still pulling the plug, though. Once their so-called transition period ends, they plan to withdraw as many VST2 licenses as they can possibly get away with. The deadline is real, and not just in Steinberg hosts.

I didn't say anything else.
But the reason is purely Steinbergs decision.

[EvilDragon]

Your point still doesn't stand.
It's purely a business decision from Steinberg not to allow it and not a technical restriction.

They are still pulling the plug, though. Once their so-called transition period ends, they plan to withdraw as many VST2 licenses as they can possibly get away with. The deadline is real, and not just in Steinberg hosts.

I don't think they can prevent any other host from providing VST2 hosting support... That'd be quite some lawsuits coming from the rest of the DAW competitors.

Or hosts would just move to a clean room reverse engineered VST2 headers (and SB can't do anything about that because of Google v Oracle precedent).

[jamcat]

So what does this all mean?
Are we just resigned to PG-8X never being Apple Silicon or VST3?

[cyberheater]

So what does this all mean?
Are we just resigned to PG-8X never being Apple Silicon or VST3?

The dev has stopped work on it and has not released the source. I believe he said he’s going to to open source it. So right now we are stuck.