KVR Audio

musiclover55547 · Post by **musiclover55547** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:03 am

Going all in with a not-yet-proven MS Product and offering the huge Mac music production community little to no added improvements has me dusting off my old copy of Live Lite, considering the upgrade Standard or Suite come the holidays and potential promos.

They've ameliorated the PDC issues (from a Gearslutz thread) in 9.2 to a large degree and they have an enormous Mac user population. I've seen nothing regarding Bitwig's future plans regarding the Mac. Countless producers use Ableton & Logic in tandem, so why not. You can pull clips off Live's GUI right into Logic, and Session View / Scenes is my main reason for using this end of the DAW workstream. I wouldn't arrange / master in either platform, but rather Logic or Cubase.

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:07 am

well, it's more an Apple flaw, that they do not provide such technical improvements like the surface to adapt on.

musiclover55547 · Post by **musiclover55547** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:36 pm

Suloo wrote:well, it's more an Apple flaw, that they do not provide such technical improvements like the surface to adapt on.

Mac has nothing to prove and already has a solid base at Ableton. I'd be hesitant to use Cubase as it traditionally, at least, has been on the PC platform, just like I wouldn't use DP if I were on MS. It's choice, and I'm re-examining mine.

Such facts do not make either OS better, worse, flawed, or otherwise. Mac does some things better, Windows others. There are some over-riding factors such as the fact that you can't use Logic. I can't, pragmatically, use Fruity Loops.

However, the Mac user base at Ableton is huge, strategic decisions are made accordingly, and I'm debating adjusting my own personal strategy regarding my second DAW. Both Ableton & Bitwig are fantastic with respect to their Session View & Scene workflows, though I prefer mixing / mastering in Logic later in the process, particularly with its complex routing, pitch editing, audio to midi, and VCAs. Ableton has everthing but VCAs, at least as of yet. Their audio to midi is perhaps the best of the lot. I prefer Logic's arranger, but would like to have a solid back up.

I've made some rumblings about each of the four key points, in my opinion critical, mentioned in this post. Given the overall reaction, I won't hold my breath. Thus, it's an academic decision, not emotional.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:01 pm

Not getting the arguments here.

Not sure what Bitwig is supposed to do if Apple simply does not offer machines with touch? Or did I miss something?
I'm sure they will provide the same tech if they can - they already do on Linux?

And 1.2 was released one week before 1.3 on all platforms evenly. So the only thing you miss out on is the one thing that simply is not available on OSX to my understanding?

And it's not for "one unproven product" but for every touch enabled Linux and Windows machine...

For me Apple had it's peak some years ago, recently they seem to fall behind more and more when it comes to innovation. The new Surface Pro and -Book mark this quite prominently, since it's the first time MS comes out with a hardware that actually creates an astonishing amount of buzz around here...

Overall I think, people do not really want a separate tablet and desktop OS. It was okay for the time being as long as tablets didn't have the power for more, but overall, MS seems to have the more realistic strategy in the long run, unifying their OS.

This is not saying that Live is a bad choice or that the mac doesn't have a lot to offer to musicians still, but they both are sitting on their laurels for a while now in my view.

I personally love it if such old farts are challenged

Cheers,

Tom

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:35 pm

Apple are focusing on mobile phone market. And ditched professional products xserve, otherwise shrink to limited lineup, Mac Pro or MBP. Because making products for fanboy and hipster like iPhone brings huge money compared to niche pro market.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:50 pm

The cut down version of Bitwig, called Bitwig 8-track is included on the new Beat mag DVD (issue 120)

Wow, 8-track is limited in the track dept, but users have access to all the devices Bitwig has to offer (more than 50)

musiclover55547 · Post by **musiclover55547** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:06 am

ThomasHelzle wrote:Not getting the arguments here.

Not sure what Bitwig is supposed to do if Apple simply does not offer machines with touch? Or did I miss something?
I'm sure they will provide the same tech if they can - they already do on Linux?

And 1.2 was released one week before 1.3 on all platforms evenly. So the only thing you miss out on is the one thing that simply is not available on OSX to my understanding?

And it's not for "one unproven product" but for every touch enabled Linux and Windows machine...

For me Apple had it's peak some years ago, recently they seem to fall behind more and more when it comes to innovation. The new Surface Pro and -Book mark this quite prominently, since it's the first time MS comes out with a hardware that actually creates an astonishing amount of buzz around here...

Overall I think, people do not really want a separate tablet and desktop OS. It was okay for the time being as long as tablets didn't have the power for more, but overall, MS seems to have the more realistic strategy in the long run, unifying their OS.

This is not saying that Live is a bad choice or that the mac doesn't have a lot to offer to musicians still, but they both are sitting on their laurels for a while now in my view.

I personally love it if such old farts are challenged

Cheers,

Tom

Precisely what Mac advertised in reverse three years ago, if that is what you mean by Apple having its peak some years ago:

This debate was going on well before you were born.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:10 am

musiclover55547 wrote:This debate was going on well before you were born.

Nope

musiclover55547 · Post by **musiclover55547** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:14 am

In case you missed:

11 July 2015

http://bgr.com/2015/07/11/mac-vs-pc-sales-2015/
"As PC sales implode, Apple Mac sales are surging"

The latest data from research firms IDC and Gartner reveals that the PC industry is imploding. Year over year, PC sales dropped by about 10-12%. Apple, though, continued to buck this industry-wide trend as Mac sales jumped dramatically in an otherwise declining market.

Year over year, Apple enjoyed the biggest improvement in PC marketshare, jumping from 5.9% during the second quarter of 2014 to 7.8% during the second quarter of 2015. What’s more, Apple was the only manufacturer to see an actual increase in PC shipments year over year. With some players like HP suffering a more than 10% decline in growth, Apple’s year over year growth checked in at an impressive 16.1%.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:23 am

Yes, and if MS hadn't invested millions into apple back in the day, they would have gone bankrupt.

Nothing is set in stone and what once was great can fall, what once was crap can rise again.

But I'm not here to convince you of MS or Apple being better, I just don't understand what you are getting at.
Being grumpy at Bitwig since you don't get touch on OSX and therefore switching to Live which also does not offer touch on OSX?

But hey, whatever makes you happy

Over and out,

Tom

musiclover55547 · Post by **musiclover55547** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:45 am

Point taken. At this point I'm just having fun, as we Mac folk like to do [joking.]

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:47 am

Numanoid wrote:The cut down version of Bitwig, called Bitwig 8-track is included on the new Beat mag DVD (issue 120)

Wow, 8-track is limited in the track dept, but users have access to all the devices Bitwig has to offer (more than 50)

I think I could have fun with that.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:04 am

musiclover55547 wrote:http://bgr.com/2015/07/11/mac-vs-pc-sales-2015/
"As PC sales implode, Apple Mac sales are surging"

This explains recent apple's stagnation of innovation and less variation of professional products lineup. They aren't what they were.

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:26 am

musiclover55547 wrote: respect to their Session View & Scene workflows, though I prefer mixing / mastering in Logic later in the process, particularly with its complex routing, pitch editing, audio to midi, and VCAs. Ableton has everthing but VCAs, at least as of yet.

routing in Bitwig, each group(which ones are projects in project) can have own fx track collection which can be routed together with the standard tracks to group aux tracks (using layered audio recivers) and their(group aux tracks) signal level can be set independently from the original track levels, each one has own send unit too (so the routed sends also can be sent to sends), u hasn't got VCA Grouping but with this pattern u can set the dry/wet signal levels together (with keeping the original levels) with macro controls so the result is quite similiar

so Bitwig also has quite flexible routing system IMO

Lesha · Post by **Lesha** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:03 am

Too time consuming.

The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread