Roland Cloud

[vulpes777]

And that's all well and good for people getting by on Lite, but what about those of us who do subscribe?

Eh, when I was a paid subscriber, I admit I got carried away and tried all the ZEN-Core-Zenology-EXZ-Model Expansions in the catalog, including things like

https://www.rolandcloud.com/news/zen-co ... -available

If i were to get a full license for Zenology today, I'd get rid of the entire expansions folder mentioned earlier in the thread, possibly do a clean reinstall with just the factory banks and then only download the expansions I'm 100% sure I'm going to use.

This isn't, technically, a guaranteed solution to the problem with the long load times, but I'm sure it would cut the bloat down to something acceptable for most people.

Regards,

--
Marco

[PAK]

And that's all well and good for people getting by on Lite, but what about those of us who do subscribe?

With an ultimate sub everything loaded in 7 seconds. It changed to 17s when my subscription expired!

The problems appear to happen when a sub or trial ends and that content is still in the folder mentioned, but there's no license for it on Roland Cloud. If you don't delete the content locally it causes a huge delay in Zenology's loading times.

Actual times will vary based on your hardware. The best you can expect is about 6 seconds (which is what I get from a clean reboot.. had to revise the time upwards a bit.. d'oh ).

But 6-7 seconds is what you can expect with a fast SSD and everything working. If you're getting the 17-40+ second lags then it's time to remove anything you don't have licenses for from the folder.
Windows "C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Local\Roland Cloud\Zenology"
MacOS “/Library/Application Support/Roland Cloud/ZENOLOGY”

[PAK]

Shouldn't their support know this and ask the RC users to try that? I wonder if Jon at Roland asked any of the RC guys about this in the past.

The impression I get is Roland Japan (who are the coders of Zenology) told Roland Cloud (who are at their mercy) to stall users. Presumably because their priorities are elsewhere right now, working on other stuff.

That's assuming they even want to fix it, since it (apparently) only affects unlicensed content, so this wouldn't be a problem if you had an Ultimate sub, would it?!

The massive delay is from the Zenology plugin filtering out the content you're not allowed to see when Zenology loads. Remove those folders and it doesn't ask about them, avoiding the delay. Though why it'd be so much quicker to confirm a license, Vs denying is anyones guess.

[BBFG#]

In 1992, Roland had a presentation/talk that focused on the need for "residual income" over any specific introduction of new products.
"Residual Income" at that time was a buzz term used mainly by vending machine manufacturer/sales.
But it has been their absolute mandate ever since. Once something stops giving them that, then they simply kill it. Sometimes they reintroduce it under a new scheme to see if they can go through the cycle again. It's historical now for those paying attention. It's like watching cows running towards every new shiny milking machine.

[IvyBirds]

Shouldn't their support know this and ask the RC users to try that? I wonder if Jon at Roland asked any of the RC guys about this in the past.

The impression I get is Roland Japan (who are the coders of Zenology) told Roland Cloud (who are at their mercy) to stall users. Presumably because their priorities are elsewhere right now, working on other stuff.

That's assuming they even want to fix it, since it (apparently) only affects unlicensed content, so this wouldn't be a problem if you had an Ultimate sub, would it?!

The massive delay is from the Zenology plugin filtering out the content you're not allowed to see when Zenology loads. Remove those folders and it doesn't ask about them, avoiding the delay. Though why it'd be so much quicker to confirm a license, Vs denying is anyones guess.

FWIW I have only used Zenology when I had an ultimate sub, and found the load times to be stupidly long

The massive delay is the plugin filtering out what you are allowed to use and what you are not authorized to to use, it makes no difference what you own or are subscribed to

The best thing you can do to speed it up is to have a fast hard drive that is not fragmented or full

[PAK]

it makes no difference what you own or are subscribed to

That doesn't appear to be the case. When the Ultimate sub expired my load times changed from 7 to 17 seconds. LITERALLY nothing changed on my end except for the sub lapsing. If what you’re saying was correct the load time would’ve remained the same because “it makes no difference”. But it appears to.

The best thing you can do to speed it up is to have a fast hard drive that is not fragmented or full

Are you actually reading the thread? Seems not. Because I just boosted the load time by 11 seconds from removing folders I don't have licenses for, not by buying faster drives. All the drives were also SSD. Do you defrag your SSDs?

As said, Zenology loaded in 7 seconds when my Ultimate sub was active. Thus it seems to be more about what it does when it finds content in those folders but can't locate a license for it.

[D-Fusion]

it makes no difference what you own or are subscribed to

That doesn't appear to be the case. When the Ultimate sub expired my load times changed from 7 to 17 seconds. LITERALLY nothing changed on my end except for the sub lapsing. If what you’re saying was correct the load time would’ve remained the same because “it makes no difference”. But it appears to.

The best thing you can do to speed it up is to have a fast hard drive that is not fragmented or full

Are you actually reading the thread? Seems not. Because I just boosted the load time by 11 seconds from removing folders I don't have licenses for, not by buying faster drives. All the drives were also SSD. Do you defrag your SSDs?

As said, Zenology loaded in 7 seconds when my Ultimate sub was active. Thus it seems to be more about what it does when it finds content in those folders but can't locate a license for it.

That might Explain why mine only takes 7 Seconds to start up since I don't have anything that i Don't own in my Folder and I have lots of SRX, soundbanks and Synth Models installed.

[IvyBirds]

Are you actually reading the thread? Seems not. Because I just boosted the load time by 11 seconds from removing folders I don't have licenses for, not by buying faster drives. All the drives were also SSD. Do you defrag your SSDs?

As said, Zenology loaded in 7 seconds when my Ultimate sub was active. Thus it seems to be more about what it does when it finds content in those folders but can't locate a license for it.

I did read the thread and sorry but what is being said doesn't make sense

You say

The massive delay is from the Zenology plugin filtering out the content you're not allowed to see when Zenology loads.

But then you say

When the Ultimate sub expired my load times changed from 7 to 17 seconds. LITERALLY nothing changed on my end except for the sub lapsing.

So what happens if you have an active Ultimate subscription? What happens if you actually want to use the things that comes with it

Of course then you muddy the waters even more by saying

But 6-7 seconds is what you can expect with a fast SSD and everything working. If you're getting the 17-40+ second lags then it's time to remove anything you don't have licenses for from the folder.
Windows "C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Local\Roland Cloud\Zenology"
MacOS “/Library/Application Support/Roland Cloud/ZENOLOGY”

Which is it? Do you just unsubscribe or do you have to remove things?

The issue is if you are subscribed and/or own or use expansions and sample packs you don't want to remove those things

So your best bet is to make sure you have a fast hard drive, and make sure it's defragmented, now if you have an SSD drive you probably don't need to defrag it, but not every drive is SSD

If you don't have any Ultimate Sub and don't own any expansions, and don't have any extra sample content why use Zenology at all? Just use the Roland XV5080 or Korg's Triton Extreme Plugin for late 1990s and early 2000s era Rompler sounds

Or better yet use Omnisphere

When I had an Ultimate Subscription I used all the sample content as it was the only way to make patches that used all the Eric Persing sample content in one package, being able to layer those with everything else is what makes it special

[PAK]

I did read the thread and sorry but what is being said doesn't make sense

Ok, just this once.. if you don’t “get” it from this then sorry..

When you start Zenology it looks in the folder mentioned and checks if you have a license for the content it finds there. If there’s no license it causes a delay. There's two main candidates for why there's a delay..

1) Roland Cloud stores 30 day licenses on your local machine. If you don’t have these licenses for the content (because you stopped a sub or a trial) Zenology then goes looking for them before giving up and blocking the unlicensed content in its browser. Or 2) The content filter is just that slow

Either way, when you remove the unlicensed content folders the checks or filtering is never triggered, and so the load times are substantially reduced.

Which is it? Do you just unsubscribe or do you have to remove things?

You have to remove any Zenology content, for which you don't have a sub / lifetime licenses, from the listed folders.

If you don't have any Ultimate Sub and don't own any expansions, and don't have any extra sample content why use Zenology at all?

Some people might use the free version. I think it comes with a bank of 128 sounds, or they otherwise own "lifetime" licenses..

[IvyBirds]

I did read the thread and sorry but what is being said doesn't make sense

Ok, just this once.. if you don’t “get” it from this then sorry..

When you start Zenology it looks in the folder mentioned and checks if you have a license for the content it finds there. If there’s no license it causes a delay. There's two main candidates for why there's a delay..

Did you even read this thread because that's exactly what I said a few days back

Thanks however for agreeing with me

Again as I said earlier the issue is Roland treats their paying customers like they are thieves and it doesn't have to be this way

Maybe next time actually read the thread rather than trying to get snarky

And again until Roland actually has a cultural change, the best thing you can do is have a fast drive, it just not use it

Your solution is to use a crippled version of it, that's fine, but at that point why bother at all?

Zenology Pro only makes sense when you use it with the Ultimate Subscription when you have most or all of the content installed, doing that you get slow start up times because even with an Ultimate Subscription Roland thinks you are a thief

If you don't use it that way, you may as well just use the XV5080 plugins or the SRX plugins for Roland 4 partial Rompler type Synthesis, or use the ACB models of the vintage instruments, or even better use other plugins that emulate the Jupiter 8, or Juno

It's a damn shame too, because Zenology Pro with all the content is pretty awesome from a sound design standpoint, it's a shame it's crippled

If Roland isn't going to change the culture of treating their paid subscribers and thieves they should make a single "Ultimate" sound file. That has everything in one file, that only works if you have an ultimate Sub, then it only has the DRM one file

[PAK]

Maybe next time actually read the thread rather than trying to get snarky

You spewed misinformation on this topic and then gave stellar advice like people should defrag their drive to improve the load times. You also decreed the content installed made no difference to load times, in direct contradiction to both myself and vulpes777’s posts about this. People who are actually using the product, along with D-Fusions experiences of (again) using the product.

You don’t use it, yet presume to know more than those who do. Do you think it’s been known, for a very long time, that the way Zenology verifies and filters content is the reason for load delays? Of course not. You were the first to think this, obviously. It definitely wasn’t posted about long before you were even a member here.

Anyway, I'm done wasting time on this with you. I'm just genuinely unsure why you participate on this thread as it seems like you’re here largely to bad-mouth Roland and appear to do your utmost to be thoroughly unpleasant to everyone else whilst you’re at it. If you’re going to post information which is just plain wrong then expect to be met with snark sometimes. Welcome to the internet.

[IvyBirds]

You spewed misinformation on this topic and then gave stellar advice like people should defrag their drive to improve the load times.

Yep I did, and that's great advice if unlike you, you actually have lots of things installed, you need a fast drive installed and if needed defrag it.

Thanks for admitting my advice is stellar

One of the things that is so frustrating about the Roland Cloud is that the experiences of one user is not the same as the experiences that others have. There is no one size fits all solution when it comes to dealing with Roland's Cloud Manager and their DCM

But maybe you haven't read this thread and are unaware of that fact

In any case, I am glad you find your solution works for you, for me it really made no difference

I am also glad that you think everyone who might read this thread has SSD drives 100% of the time, unlike you all I tried to do is help people and realize in the real world we don't have one size fits all solutions

But I am glad we have you and your superior intellect to share with us little people.

But the question still remains what do people with an Ultimate Subscription do when they want to have everything installed? Your solution won't work will it? Should they not have the fastest drive possible? Should they not make sure it's defragmented if needed?

Even if they try using you solution are you saying Drive Speed is not relevant? If they have it installed on a laptop with a 5200 RPM drive that is fragmented are you saying a faster drive wouldn't get better results?

[IvyBirds]

[audiojunkie]

You spewed misinformation on this topic and then gave stellar advice like people should defrag their drive to improve the load times.

Yep I did, and that's great advice if unlike you, you actually have lots of things installed, you need a fast drive installed and if needed defrag it.

Thanks for admitting my advice is stellar

One of the things that is so frustrating about the Roland Cloud is that the experiences of one user is not the same as the experiences that others have. There is no one size fits all solution when it comes to dealing with Roland's Cloud Manager and their DCM

But maybe you haven't read this thread and are unaware of that fact

In any case, I am glad you find your solution works for you, for me it really made no difference

I am also glad that you think everyone who might read this thread has SSD drives 100% of the time, unlike you all I tried to do is help people and realize in the real world we don't have one size fits all solutions

But I am glad we have you and your superior intellect to share with us little people.

But the question still remains what do people with an Ultimate Subscription do when they want to have everything installed? Your solution won't work will it? Should they not have the fastest drive possible? Should they not make sure it's defragmented if needed?

Even if they try using you solution are you saying Drive Speed is not relevant? If they have it installed on a laptop with a 5200 RPM drive that is fragmented are you saying a faster drive wouldn't get better results?

Defrag isn’t needed with SSD technology.

[IvyBirds]

Defrag isn’t needed with SSD technology.

But what if you don't have an SSD? I have three different drives in my main studio PC. Two are SSD and one is not. I also run Audiogridder and use multiple old computers to use their CPU and RAM to run the DSP for them off of my main studio PC

A program like Zenology Pro would work great on one of my old work laptops running Windows 7 with a 500GB hard drive, a 10 year old I7, and 16gb of RAM. That hard drive is not SSD and runs at 5200 RPM. I currently run Omnisphere on one and Korg Triton Extreme on another, but run them remotely through Audiogridder on my DAW