Why is modern music so awful

[bermudagold]

american = strange?...you realize america has dominated the music industry in transactional volume for decades...UK bands didnt get famous or rich off the UK...they did off of american audiences

Historically yes. Today... a lot of money behind Oricon and other Asian charts too.

sure...But USA is still 40% of market...for global revenue recorded music sales

Top 10 Countries (2025):
United States — By far the largest market (around $17-18B range in recent estimates), driven by streaming.
Japan — Traditionally strong in physical formats (CDs) alongside streaming.
United Kingdom
China — Rapidly rising (overtook Germany); strong double-digit growth in recent years.
Germany
France
South Korea — Boosted by K-pop's global influence.
Brazil — Strong Latin American growth via streaming.
Canada
Mexico — Entered the top 10 recently; part of Latin America's fast growth.

When it comes to physical sales and downloads...
Japan — Clear leader in physical formats.
United States — Large absolute volume, especially vinyl.
Germany — Strong physical market in Europe.
South Korea
United Kingdom
China / France
7-10. Other Europeans (e.g., France, Italy), plus emerging physical pockets.

[bermudagold]

Also - on the subject of "charts"- there were the CMJ charts, and many of the artists you liked in the 80's and 90's were most likely on those!

The CMJ charts mattered (College Media Journal) and were not "dross", sorry.

No idea - you don't get that in the UK. The BBC has a commitment to diversity, so would play music whether it got into the charts or not, so you would hear loads of different styles of varying popularity during the day and especially in the evening.

but the zeitgeist was still heavily chart driven no?...I remember how popular those "top o the pops' records on vinyl from the UK were in the 60s-80s...with the female modeling on the covers...I still have a bunch

[bermudagold]

double

[Bunny_boy]

Also - on the subject of "charts"- there were the CMJ charts, and many of the artists you liked in the 80's and 90's were most likely on those!

The CMJ charts mattered (College Media Journal) and were not "dross", sorry.

No idea - you don't get that in the UK. The BBC has a commitment to diversity, so would play music whether it got into the charts or not, so you would hear loads of different styles of varying popularity during the day and especially in the evening.

but the zeitgeist was still heavily chart driven no?...I remember how popular those "top o the pops' records on vinyl from the UK were in the 60s-80s...with the female modeling on the covers...I still have a bunch

Oh yeah, totally. I've posted loads of examples here of utterly terrible songs that got in the charts. I guess this is bit of an ot side thread about what's played on the radio Vs what the public like to buy

[stoopicus]

american = strange?...you realize america has dominated the music industry in transactional volume for decades...UK bands didnt get famous or rich off the UK...they did off of american audiences

Historically yes. Today... a lot of money behind Oricon and other Asian charts too.

sure...But USA is still 40% of market...for global revenue recorded music sales

Right. The point being: APAC now >= USA. Japan + SK + China + Australia is taking over. There was a time when USA was top dog, but that's more or less run out.

Plus, the economies in APAC are trending up, especially China. US needs to solve its incompetent leadership problem.

[stoopicus]

(overly political post deleted, sorry )

[Bunny_boy]

I always assumed pirate radio was used similarly in the UK no?

There's kinda two era of pirate radio in the UK (please please correct me if I'm wrong): you had the really early Radio Caroline stuff that was in response to the BBC not playing Rock n Roll back in the early 60s, and the prominent (I think) London-based pirate radio stations late 80s - mid 2000s for, again, playing stuff that wasn't on the BBC's wavelength. Commercial radio is outside of this as it's just for the money (although you can, of course, have Kiss FM down for a pirate station and a commercial station)

The later stuff covered house, acid, jungle, grime, and dubstep (among others).

Of course the BBC didn't always play what was required by their charter (e.g Sex Pistols getting to no 1), but by the 90s if you were a guitar band, getting your stuff on evening Radio 1 was pretty much the be all and end all. John Peel played whatever he liked, he had no contractual obligations to play a certain set of songs each time.

[Bunny_boy]

Found this archived somewhere.

The entire list of CMJ's Top 250 Singles 1979-1989, the biggest songs on college/alternative radio in that period:
55. Tracy Chapman, “Fast Car”
94. Ziggy Marley and the Melody Makers, “Tomorrow People”
116. Prince and the Revolution, “Let’s Go Crazy”

what's also interesting is that in 250 records, there were only 3 black artists...and zero urban music

That's far more of an important observation than me noticing that the chart appeared to be made up of lots of one-off (novelty) numbers and / or U2

[TechHaus]

For the record, I didn't post that CMJ 1979-1989 list to prove any particular point - it was more just "oh hey, i found a thing!" I don't even know some of the bands (I posted earlier in the thread that my parents raised me on "oldies", I was ignorant of that era).

But that averages out to like 25 songs a year - I have no idea what the next 75 most popular songs were any of those years.

Last on CMJ, I was only familiar with the late 90's and early 00's CMJ charts, because that's when I went to college and went to indie record stores, etc. I would assume it was a lot of Matador records, Warp records, Sub Pop, Epitaph, Merge...just off the top of my head. Probably lots of Sonic Youth on those 90's charts. I dunno, but I know it mattered a lot to the business, and charting on there means you could sell 30k or 50k or 100k albums. Not the MILLIONS you would sell charting on Billboard, but selling 50k plastic disks would mean you could make another indie record probably.

Remember, back then touring was kind of a loss leader to sell these disks. Concerts were cheap relative to today, where the music is the loss leader to sell expensive concert experiences.

I think eventually many indie labels signed major label distribution deals, then got swallowed by majors totally having their artists poached, etc.

When talking about NME and Q (and I forgot about Select, thanks for the reminder), I think Goldie and Tricky and those types of jungle and triphop and rappers were charting in the 90's in UK.

Stereo MC's broke through big time on MTV in the USA. I went to see "Black Grape" once in NYC and they made the crowd wait hours and hours, uncomfortably. Now to tour the US you probably need a 360 deal with LiveNation or a major tour company, and you better be on time and professional.

I preferred UK music to what came after grunge in the US (aka Pearl Jam).

Really got into Radiohead early before Kid A. Since Japanese physical media was mentioned, I would buy their Japanese and UK imports to get b-sides, which are now readily available on streaming platforms.

Anyway, still not making any particular point here. Just like oh yeah, i remember all of that! (sorry if any of this is a retread of what happened in the first 40 pages...nobody has time to read all of that).

[bermudagold]

american = strange?...you realize america has dominated the music industry in transactional volume for decades...UK bands didnt get famous or rich off the UK...they did off of american audiences

Historically yes. Today... a lot of money behind Oricon and other Asian charts too.

sure...But USA is still 40% of market...for global revenue recorded music sales

Right. The point being: APAC now >= USA. Japan + SK + China + Australia is taking over. There was a time when USA was top dog, but that's more or less run out.

Plus, the economies in APAC are trending up, especially China. US needs to solve its incompetent leadership problem.

all true points...if you'd have asked me years ago whether J-pop and K-pop would have gotten this big and crossed over internationally I wouldn't have believed you...its a multidimensional cultural transfer as well...I'm always surprised how much anime seems to be growing in the west too

[bermudagold]

Found this archived somewhere.

The entire list of CMJ's Top 250 Singles 1979-1989, the biggest songs on college/alternative radio in that period:
55. Tracy Chapman, “Fast Car”
94. Ziggy Marley and the Melody Makers, “Tomorrow People”
116. Prince and the Revolution, “Let’s Go Crazy”

what's also interesting is that in 250 records, there were only 3 black artists...and zero urban music

That's far more of an important observation than me noticing that the chart appeared to be made up of lots of one-off (novelty) numbers and / or U2

yeah in terms of market penetration...I don't think there was a single demographic that hadn't heard most of joshua tree informally...phenomena that would never happen today

[bermudagold]

I always assumed pirate radio was used similarly in the UK no?

There's kinda two era of pirate radio in the UK (please please correct me if I'm wrong): you had the really early Radio Caroline stuff that was in response to the BBC not playing Rock n Roll back in the early 60s, and the prominent (I think) London-based pirate radio stations late 80s - mid 2000s for, again, playing stuff that wasn't on the BBC's wavelength. Commercial radio is outside of this as it's just for the money (although you can, of course, have Kiss FM down for a pirate station and a commercial station)

The later stuff covered house, acid, jungle, grime, and dubstep (among others).

Of course the BBC didn't always play what was required by their charter (e.g Sex Pistols getting to no 1), but by the 90s if you were a guitar band, getting your stuff on evening Radio 1 was pretty much the be all and end all. John Peel played whatever he liked, he had no contractual obligations to play a certain set of songs each time.

I remember this tune was a big hit worldwide..."Pirates Anthem"

"Dem a call us pirates...dem a call us illegal broadcasters...just because we play what the people want...they try to stop us but they cant...
Down in England we've got lots of radio station...playing the people's music night and day...reggae, calypso, hip hop, or disco...the latest sound today is what we play...off and on...on and off and on
they're passing laws...they're planning legislation...trying their best to keep the music down...why don't you leave us alone?...we only play the music people want"

from the outside lookin in sounded like a righteous revolution lol

[Bunny_boy]

Found this archived somewhere.

The entire list of CMJ's Top 250 Singles 1979-1989, the biggest songs on college/alternative radio in that period:
55. Tracy Chapman, “Fast Car”
94. Ziggy Marley and the Melody Makers, “Tomorrow People”
116. Prince and the Revolution, “Let’s Go Crazy”

what's also interesting is that in 250 records, there were only 3 black artists...and zero urban music

That's far more of an important observation than me noticing that the chart appeared to be made up of lots of one-off (novelty) numbers and / or U2

yeah in terms of market penetration...I don't think there was a single demographic that hadn't heard most of joshua tree informally...phenomena that would never happen today

[vurt]

Found this archived somewhere.

The entire list of CMJ's Top 250 Singles 1979-1989, the biggest songs on college/alternative radio in that period:
55. Tracy Chapman, “Fast Car”
94. Ziggy Marley and the Melody Makers, “Tomorrow People”
116. Prince and the Revolution, “Let’s Go Crazy”

what's also interesting is that in 250 records, there were only 3 black artists...and zero urban music

That's far more of an important observation than me noticing that the chart appeared to be made up of lots of one-off (novelty) numbers and / or U2

yeah in terms of market penetration...I don't think there was a single demographic that hadn't heard most of joshua tree informally...phenomena that would never happen today

great record

[Bunny_boy]

great record

Any excuse to post this