If AI replaces musicians, does the entire plugin industry die with them?

[BONES]

(I don't like the idea for music and art though... I'm not interested in it influencing my output, or what I hear)

Why not? It becomes another form of collaboration and collaboration always works better than doing everything yourself. At the end of the day, you still get to choose what to take from it and what to ignore. The good thing is that, unlike human collaborators, you don't have to worry about offending them if you don't like something they've offered up, you just tell it to try again.

I think the other part of this is society as a whole will probably devalue music even more... But now we can just type a few lines in an AI prompt and generate something, even if it isn't 1:1 the highest quality.

Maybe, maybe not. I ran into a mate I hadn't seen for a while a few months ago and he couldn't wait to play me the AI generated music he'd made for nothing more than his own listening pleasure. To the best of my knowledge, he'd never had much interest in music previously but he was genuinely excited by this. You can't argue with that. It may devalue music as a commodity, as a product, but it could equally allow anyone to make their own music, for their own amusement, and create a deeper appreciation for music in general. I can't see that as a bad thing.

We are beginning to already become inundated with music, pre AI. Some that might even chart but probably never gets discovered. But now everyone also has to compete for listeners with a sea of AI slop. It's all meshed together.

I only see that as an incremental worsening of a situation we've been dealing with for years already. Being one in a million or one in ten million doesn't seem like much of a difference to me.

[ghettosynth]

I think the other part of this is society as a whole will probably devalue music even more... But now we can just type a few lines in an AI prompt and generate something, even if it isn't 1:1 the highest quality.

Maybe, maybe not. I ran into a mate I hadn't seen for a while a few months ago and he couldn't wait to play me the AI generated music he'd made for nothing more than his own listening pleasure. To the best of my knowledge, he'd never had much interest in music previously but he was genuinely excited by this. You can't argue with that. It may devalue music as a commodity, as a product, but it could equally allow anyone to make their own music, for their own amusement, and create a deeper appreciation for music in general. I can't see that as a bad thing.

[DCrown]

The vocals put it too much into parody territory for me.
It's between pastiche and parody, but if you add an intentionally funny video you could get some traction as a comedic tune.
To be honest, the lyrics are part of the parody element, so are they AI also?

No, the lyrics I wrote. The song was not meant to be taken seriously but to be an obvious rip off of the Bee Gees.
I make no apologies for it. LOL

What did you use for what sounds like staccato guitar chords?
Those really let the arrangement down for me on many levels.
The tone and rhythmic feel are very off to me.

You have given me the idea now to create parodies of artists and songs.

Hey, you know what? You don't like it, you don't like. It's all cool. I do what I like and if somebody else likes it too, great. If not, that's okay too.

I've been writing songs too many years to care what other people think at this point.

I'm glad to hear that.
In practice, it's much more of a pastiche than a parody.
Once the idea of parody entered my mind though, I ran with that as it amused me.
There's a long tradition of musical parody in the UK, so I am primed to filter things through that.

I didn't mean to be rude and am curious what the staccato sound is that I found jarring?
The brain tends to focus on the novel and that stood out for me along with the vocals.

The staccato guitar sound is a loop. I like it. That's all that matters to me,

Let me make something clear to everybody here.

I've been writing music long enough (over 50 years) that I feel I've earned the right to use a loop, arp, baked samples and even some AI if I choose to.

If anybody has a problem with that, it's THEIR problem. Not MINE.

I call that offence against decency and the dignity of art!
That's why there is a forum for AI now, that's a good thing and it might open the gate to hell just a little slower. It is a good thing to stop ai being spread everywhere, you have a nice topic about eqs all of a sudden sonible, I read more than 70% of uploads are ai, ai will.soon.start threads and post comments here, who can tell whether Wagtunes isn't just some creation of ai?!, read his comments and you might get confused, so ai must be separated from ai-free and LABELED. There could be Spotify and SpotifAI.

I play guitar for many years, do I have the right to make my ole guitar play and create some guitar sound without strings?! Yes, I could use a guitar plugin, but would still have to play it.
The creation of the name Wagtunes could also be a hidden message for instance Whimsical or Witty or Warped Artificial Gem or Golden or Groundbreaking Tunes!? My name neither has letter a nor i!

"I herby declare and swear that my post and opinion is completely ai-free and that I make the laundry all by myself, neither do I exploit some woman nor some poor ai (-robot) that couldn't even refuse to work, you downgrade it to your slave not being aware of the fact that the.more you will use it the more it will control and ultimately enslave you!"

[ghettosynth]

"I herby declare and swear that my post and opinion is completely ai-free and that I make the laundry all by myself, neither do I exploit some woman nor some poor ai (-robot) that couldn't even refuse to work, you downgrade it to your slave not being aware of the fact that the.more you will use it the more it will control and ultimately enslave you!"

[enroe]

"I herby declare and swear that my post and opinion is completely ai-free and that I make the laundry all by myself, neither do I exploit some woman nor some poor ai (-robot) that couldn't even refuse to work.

Should this declaration be included under every piece of music
and every work of art from now on? I think so!

[Zeisner]

OpenAI didn't buy moltbook.

Who said that OpenAI bought Moltbook? Your LLM?

You can keep telling yourself that agents aren't useful

Nice strawman. I never said that. I use agents all the time. The difference is that they're useful. None of them are based on deep learning, making them quite reliable. I follow the principle of the five nines - a minimum precision/accuracy of 99,999 %. A machine with less than that is considered dysfunctional/broken and not useful as a tool.

In short, don't believe everything that you read.

Says the one who takes everything a LLM says at face value...

His result isn't original.

Another nice strawman but I never claimed it's original. It's possible that it is original. I've never seen any document mentioning it before nor have I seen the characteristic waveforms it produces in any of the genres that utilize equivalence stereophony. Sometimes, humans - those who have the ability to think, of course - create something new. But that wasn't part of the test anyway.

The test was about making an AI create an idea as proof for its ability to think. It should create an idea about a mono-compatible type of equivalence stereophony involving ILD, ITD and ISD. You came up with stupid jokes and a few stereo special effect ideas from humans, only using your LLM as a search engine instead of a thinking engine despite your "power prompting". But did I ask for special effects? No, I asked for stereophony. Obviously you don't know what stereophony is, just like you don't know what the Haas effect is (which is once again not ITD). You can't even use a LLM as a search engine correctly because you don't understand what you're looking for. You don't even understand the difference between static and variable gain.

I see the goalposts have moved though, from idea to "original."

You are the only one who tries to move the goalposts. Now you're trying to pretend that it was never about LLMs being able to think, it was all about LLMs as search engines. But search engines can't think, proving my point once again.

AI did come up with ideas

Earlier search engines were able to find things too, with none of them featuring deep learning. I did search for all kinds of stuff with early Google, including high-instance parallel ITD which I mentioned before. To simple minds it was like magic - how could Google know where to find what they've been looking for? Crazy! But it was all just statistics and indexing. Without hallucinations though. Much better technology. The user still needs to be able to think of course - there's too many self-proclaimed "experts" who write bogus like "Flip the phase" or "Haas panning".

some of them were valid with respect to his ill posed constraints

None of them were which is obvious to anyone who is at least able to replicate them in their DAWs, something you can't do. The level of incompetence is astonishing. And that's just the beginning, it will only get worse the longer you outsource thinking to a machine that can't think. And there's no going back, you're already so dependent on LLMs that you can't even troll people on the web without them.

[Zeisner]

I call that offence against decency and the dignity of art!

There's a problem with this though: The people taking this route don't have any decency and dignity, they are incapable of understanding the meaning of those terms. They are unable to recognize and create art, everything is just kitsch to them, decoration without meaning. So you're essentially calling out blind painters making a mess instead of a portrait - at best. At worst it's like playing chess with a pigeon.

[Zeisner]

Should this declaration be included under every piece of music and every work of art from now on?

I don't see the point of doing that. Either you can see or hear right away if something has been created by an AI or you aren't even able to read and understand warning labels.

[NothanUmber]

I don't see the point of doing that. Either you can see or hear right away if something has been created by an AI or you aren't even able to read and understand warning labels.

Out of interest I ran some LLM generated code through a platform that is specialized in detecting generated code. It was still able to detect a majority of the purely LLM generated stuff (mainly some formatting idioms that LLMs use a lot more often than humans). But e.g. in already existing, initially human written files that were rewritten more than 75% by the LLM, the detector considered this 100% human written code. Apparently the LLM adapted sufficiently to the prevalent style of the files that the detector patterns didn't match anymore.
I honestly also would have had a hard time to tell what is machine generated in these files.
So I think it depends. Sometimes it is still quite obvious, sometimes not so much.

[DCrown]

Should this declaration be included under every piece of music and every work of art from now on?

I don't see the point of doing that. Either you can see or hear right away if something has been created by an AI or you aren't even able to read and understand warning labels.

You will see the point soon, cuz AI will be improved and it will get harder to detect ai.
To me it is a scam not to label an ai production.
I am old school and want to listen to 100% ai-free, autotune-free human productions, so the music I listen to is from about 1700 to 2001. Not going to join ai fake circus. Still a lot to discover.

[ghettosynth]

His result isn't original.

Another nice strawman but I never claimed it's original. It's possible that it is original.

[BONES]

Come on, we need more WEDGIE FORCE!!!! That schizz rocks!

ai will.soon.start threads and post comments here, who can tell whether Wagtunes isn't just some creation of ai?!

According to you and others, you should be able to spot it instantly, so where would the problem be?

I use agents all the time.

Secret Agents? Like Maxwell Smart, Boysie Oakes or Derek Flint? Cool!

The people taking this route don't have any decency and dignity, they are incapable of understanding the meaning of those terms. They are unable to recognize and create art, everything is just kitsch to them, decoration without meaning.

I can't speak for anyone else but I think the reviewers of our music would disagree with your assessment. I think that's a big difference between you and I - I have confidence in the art I create. I create visual art on a daily basis, seen every evening by more than a million viewers. And I get paid more than anyone else in the department for the work I do. We also put the music we make out there for people to hear, to make their own judgement on.

Where's your art? Surely if you are so passionate about the process, you have some results you can share? Or maybe you don't have any creativity to speak of and you are envious of how feeble AI makes you look?

To me it is a scam not to label an ai production.

Why? As Zeisner suggests, it shouldn't be necessasry because if what you guys "beLIEve" is correct, everyone will know it's AI anyway. So the mere suggestion that it needs to be labeled is an admission that AI music is good enough to pass as human created.

I am old school and want to listen to 100% ai-free, autotune-free human productions, so the music I listen to is from about 1700 to 2001. Not going to join ai fake circus. Still a lot to discover.

Why? Why isn't it enough that the music you listen to is enjoyable, why should the process matter in the slightest? It just tells me that for you it's all about ego, not about music.

[wagtunes]

Bones, you are my new hero. I couldn't have said what you said any better. I agree with you 100%.

Personally, I use AI where I'm lacking, vocals. Everything else I enjoy doing from scratch.

[DCrown]

Bones, you are my new hero. I couldn't have said what you said any better. I agree with you 100%.

Personally, I use AI where I'm lacking, vocals. Everything else I enjoy doing from scratch.

I somehow liked you, but now you plsy unfair by hiding your microphone, I mean, maybe I coild even give you a good piece of advise if I knew, but you prefer playing Mr. Secret..
You last post shows a disgusting side of you.

[DCrown]

Come on, we need more WEDGIE FORCE!!!! That schizz rocks!

ai will.soon.start threads and post comments here, who can tell whether Wagtunes isn't just some creation of ai?!

According to you and others, you should be able to spot it instantly, so where would the problem be?

I use agents all the time.

Secret Agents? Like Maxwell Smart, Boysie Oakes or Derek Flint? Cool!

The people taking this route don't have any decency and dignity, they are incapable of understanding the meaning of those terms. They are unable to recognize and create art, everything is just kitsch to them, decoration without meaning.

I can't speak for anyone else but I think the reviewers of our music would disagree with your assessment. I think that's a big difference between you and I - I have confidence in the art I create. I create visual art on a daily basis, seen every evening by more than a million viewers. And I get paid more than anyone else in the department for the work I do. We also put the music we make out there for people to hear, to make their own judgement on.

Where's your art? Surely if you are so passionate about the process, you have some results you can share? Or maybe you don't have any creativity to speak of and you are envious of how feeble AI makes you look?

To me it is a scam not to label an ai production.

Why? As Zeisner suggests, it shouldn't be necessasry because if what you guys "beLIEve" is correct, everyone will know it's AI anyway. So the mere suggestion that it needs to be labeled is an admission that AI music is good enough to pass as human created.

I am old school and want to listen to 100% ai-free, autotune-free human productions, so the music I listen to is from about 1700 to 2001. Not going to join ai fake circus. Still a lot to discover.

Why? Why isn't it enough that the music you listen to is enjoyable, why should the process matter in the slightest? It just tells me that for you it's all about ego, not about music.

Sometimes you write in an interesting or entertaining way but now you show a stupid side of you.

Music and music taste is always ego, what else could it be. One could replace the term ego by subjective. Btw the music genres I enjoy are various and different, I enjoy as long as I don't have to be tortured by some artifacts caused by correction tools or ai, even worse when the correction tool is used as an effect on a million productions, I enjoy as long as a production doesn't remind me of songs I heard a thousand times very similar before, I enjoy as long as lyrics and arrangements show some creativity, virtuosity can be impressive, but I don't need it on every song, The standard of today's superpolished, soulless mix quality is pain to my ears.
I see every day how AI destroy business, culture, society, art more and more. My company uses AI more and more and it can't get more stupid any more.
When I see your answers I am wondering if you have some ai chip already in your head.
There is a reason why there is a new forum even here for ai topics, guess why?!

AI creates AI productions,
it must be labeled just like ingredients
of food.must be labeled.
AI is fastfood, I don't eat fastfood at all.
Just label it, it is rather for the older generations only,
who want to spend their last years of life
on a certain level of decency and quality
I don't care what future generations will do
Ai doesn't create, it destroys and ruins,
Ai doesn't support,
it will turn humans into stupid slaves.
When I hear people sometimes say AI saves you a lot of time, I just have to facepalm. You don't need to be a prophet to know what most people will do and turn into if they have a lot of free time for a very long period of time, maybe thanks to ai their whole life, it is not something good, you can be sure the outcome for humanity and society and culture won't be good (dulling, stupidity, less creativity and variety, boredom, raise of crimes, suicide, cannibalism etc etc etc).
AI is poison, there always was poison in life and always will be, if antidotes won't be found, some essential things or parts of life will die, there are more examples than AI in the last 35 years the era of innovation and technology (aquarius age), but this topic would go too deep.