Wotja 22 - Generative Music App & Plug-in Host (Free, Pro; AUv3 / VST3)

[impete]

yes, but that is only for the case when you want to send each channel to a unique VST. i have demonstrated this several times already.

the problem is:

it should also work for the case of sending all data directly (no Rack required) from Wotja to a multitimbral instrument like Kontakt. in this case, all the data sent from Wotja ends up on channel 1. as i have posted multiple times, please see my example on page 43 of this thread.

it should also work regardless of whether the Experimental Engine is on or off.

Hi!

To be clear, I was just documenting a test case, to help illustrate to users how to configure things.

And - drum roll ... I've just been testing in Wotja 22.1.2 (pre-release) with the Tracktion Waveform Experimental audio engine, without any trouble.

Best wishes,

Pete

[JamminFool]

that is fantastic news! i can't wait to test it.

[ZincT]

yes, but that is only for the case when you want to send each channel to a unique VST. i have demonstrated this several times already.

the problem is:

it should also work for the case of sending all data directly (no Rack required) from Wotja to a multitimbral instrument like Kontakt. in this case, all the data sent from Wotja ends up on channel 1. as i have posted multiple times, please see my example on page 43 of this thread.

it should also work regardless of whether the Experimental Engine is on or off.

@JamminFool

I'm not seeing that problem, at least not with the experimental engine off.

[JamminFool]

hi zincT,
i see you are using the Free version. that is v11.5 (?). i suspect the problem has to do with the way JUCE handles badly formed MIDI timestamps. Earlier versions of Waveform used a different version of JUCE, i think. that may explain (but i'm not sure) why the free version "works".

if you try it with the latest 11.5.18 Pro version, it may show the issue, but (as the issue is related to the way MIDI timestamps are sent), it may or may not manifest on your system, in your setup, etc.

[ZincT]

hi zincT,
i see you are using the Free version. that is v11.5 (?). i suspect the problem has to do with the way JUCE handles badly formed MIDI timestamps. Earlier versions of Waveform used a different version of JUCE, i think. that may explain (but i'm not sure) why the free version "works".

if you try it with the latest 11.5.18 Pro version, it may show the issue, but (as the issue is related to the way MIDI timestamps are sent), it may or may not manifest on your system, in your setup, etc.

Yes, it's the free version of Waveform v11.5.18. I also just tried a similar thing with Kontakt in place of Miroslav Philharmonic and that also worked fine.

It's certainly a tricky one to solve; I don't envy Pete.

Ok, I will give the Pro version a try. Have you tried the free version?

Is there any way to find out which version of JUCE is being used? "Help - About" mentions JUCE but not which version.

[JamminFool]

hi zincT,
i see you are using the Free version. that is v11.5 (?). i suspect the problem has to do with the way JUCE handles badly formed MIDI timestamps. Earlier versions of Waveform used a different version of JUCE, i think. that may explain (but i'm not sure) why the free version "works".

if you try it with the latest 11.5.18 Pro version, it may show the issue, but (as the issue is related to the way MIDI timestamps are sent), it may or may not manifest on your system, in your setup, etc.

Yes, it's the free version of Waveform v11.5.18. I also just tried a similar thing with Kontakt in place of Miroslav Philharmonic and that also worked fine.

It's certainly a tricky one to solve; I don't envy Pete.

Ok, I will give the Pro version a try. Have you tried the free version?

Is there any way to find out which version of JUCE is being used? "Help - About" mentions JUCE but not which version.

i really don't know. i'm mostly just speculating based on some hints that were given by jules over on the tracktion forum regarding what happens when waveform encounters badly formed midi messages.

the timestamps were shown to be in error, and he suggested that pete should start there. in addition, there was another clue when Loomer Architect also had a problem passing on the midi data. it also uses JUCE, so this seemed to be another clue. the important thing is that it doesn't always work, and pete is suggesting that he found and fixed a problem in this area, so i am hoping that once that problem is fixed, it will work in all versions of Waveform under all conditions. i can only report what happens on my system, which is that it failed under the conditions i described.

hopefully the fix will be beneficial to all systems, all DAWs, under all conditions.

[dopet]

I just tried the latest VST3 version (22.1.0) again in Studio One 5 (latest update, Win 10) and the midi routing between tracks (midi out from Wotja VST3 to another track) still does not trigger any sounds in the other track. The midi activity monitor lights up on the receiving track (as it did in earlier versions), but no sound is generated.

Using Wotja standalone and piping midi into Studio One thru LoopMidi does work as expected.

@dopet That's weird, the plugin works fine here (also latest Wotja and latest S1 Pro).
Here's a video I made to show how to use multi-timbral instruments with Wotja in Studio One which might help? If not I can always do a step by step video starting with a blank project if that would help?

I guess the key thing is to make sure that the instrument track MIDI input is set to the correct Wotja MIDI channel output.

Thanks again for this! Confirming the midi routing between tracks does indeed work. It just doesn't work exactly like all the other ones. The thing that made all the difference was using the 'Direct Input' tab of the target instrument and selecting Wotja and corresponding midi channel number. I use the direct input tab for other things, but never HAD to use it to make midi routing between tracks work. Thats why I never even considered doing that.

Also want to mention: Since you are using the 'Direct Input' feature, you dont need to also select Wotja again at the midi input selector on the track header. I have that set to 'none' and all is working fine. A minor thing, but that frees up another midi input source. I use something like Audiare's Zenith (or that Cable Guys midi tool) to send modulation data to the track while it is being triggered from another 'midi generating' device. By using a combo of the midi in selector on the track header AND the direct input tab on the instrument tab, you can do a few neat things....

[ZincT]

Thanks again for this! Confirming the midi routing between tracks does indeed work. It just doesn't work exactly like all the other ones. The thing that made all the difference was using the 'Direct Input' tab of the target instrument and selecting Wotja and corresponding midi channel number. I use the direct input tab for other things, but never HAD to use it to make midi routing between tracks work. Thats why I never even considered doing that.

That's great news. Glad you got it sorted @dopet.

I only discovered the direct input tab myself recently.

Also want to mention: Since you are using the 'Direct Input' feature, you dont need to also select Wotja again at the midi input selector on the track header. I have that set to 'none' and all is working fine. A minor thing, but that frees up another midi input source. I use something like Audiare's Zenith (or that Cable Guys midi tool) to send modulation data to the track while it is being triggered from another 'midi generating' device. By using a combo of the midi in selector on the track header AND the direct input tab on the instrument tab, you can do a few neat things....

Useful tip, thanks and I can confirm that having "none" selected at the track header input makes no difference. Useful to know as I have Shaperbox 2 so I will try that out.

[ZincT]

hi zincT,
i see you are using the Free version. that is v11.5 (?). i suspect the problem has to do with the way JUCE handles badly formed MIDI timestamps. Earlier versions of Waveform used a different version of JUCE, i think. that may explain (but i'm not sure) why the free version "works".

if you try it with the latest 11.5.18 Pro version, it may show the issue, but (as the issue is related to the way MIDI timestamps are sent), it may or may not manifest on your system, in your setup, etc.

@JamminFool

I have now signed up for the 90 day free trial of Waveform Pro so have upgraded my free version to Pro.

However, after testing it with the same multi-timbral setup as shown above, it is working the same as it did on the free version of Waveform with Wotja 22.1.0.

[impete]

It's certainly a tricky one to solve; I don't envy Pete.
Is there any way to find out which version of JUCE is being used? "Help - About" mentions JUCE but not which version.

Hi folks,

For what its worth, the reason I had problems with MIDI event timing were several:
- JUCE: Ambiguity in the documentation as to how MIDI time stamps were supposed to be used for each audio block; if interested, these need to be numbered from zero for every audio block emitted (so they're always relative to the start of the block)
- JUCE: the AUv3 implementation should have emitted absolute MIDI event times to the AU subsystem; but it was sending the "zero based" relative time I noted above; note that the VST implementation in JUCE handled this the right way. I think the reason they had the bug in the AU adaptor, is down to the ambiguity I mentioned above. I actually found this issue (and fix) independently of the JUCE team a couple of days back; it turns out they'd fixed it at the end of December (in a version we'd not merged-in)

We don't merge-in JUCE updates very often, as I'm cautious not to destabilise Wotja; I have patched JUCE quite extensively to (say) support tvOS and work-around various issues with plug-in scanning and what have you, and I have to be very careful not to break all my fixes!

Finally - Wotja 22.1.2 (sent this morning to Beta testers!) has a version of JUCE 6.1.5 - so completely up-to-date. The primary reason for my updating from JUCE 6.1.4 was to get some Accessibility fixes.

Best wishes, Pete

[JamminFool]

this is great news, thank you very much for pursuing this issue. due to the nature of the problem, i have hopes that it may resolve the problem in Loomer Architect also. I will, of course, test it in Architect and Waveform when you drop the new version.

[JamminFool]

hi zincT,
i see you are using the Free version. that is v11.5 (?). i suspect the problem has to do with the way JUCE handles badly formed MIDI timestamps. Earlier versions of Waveform used a different version of JUCE, i think. that may explain (but i'm not sure) why the free version "works".

if you try it with the latest 11.5.18 Pro version, it may show the issue, but (as the issue is related to the way MIDI timestamps are sent), it may or may not manifest on your system, in your setup, etc.

@JamminFool

I have now signed up for the 90 day free trial of Waveform Pro so have upgraded my free version to Pro.

However, after testing it with the same multi-timbral setup as shown above, it is working the same as it did on the free version of Waveform with Wotja 22.1.0.

as i mentioned above, due to the nature of the issue, it is possible that it may not manifest on all systems in the same way. I'm glad it works for you.

[zzz00m]

I only discovered the direct input tab myself recently.

So how does one go about locating this mysterious "direct input tab"?

[ZincT]

I only discovered the direct input tab myself recently.

So how does one go about locating this mysterious "direct input tab"?

Hi @zzz00m

It's the one in my video shown around 1m 31 secs (I posted this with a start time of 91 sec but it doesn't seem to work here for some reason).....

[ZincT]

@zzz00m
What dopet discovered since I made the video and I have now confirmed was that, so long as you have the direct input field set correctly (the one in the video at 1m31s), you can actually have the MIDI input field in the track header (left hand column) set to "none" and it still works.