KVR Audio

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:59 pm

In a good editor you won't get conversion problems in the first place...

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:03 pm

AAaahhhh, bduffy, NOW I've gotcha, I think.

Tracktion'll play back any combination of sample rates and bit depths all in the same timeline without conversion. I'm amazed that Cubase doesn't.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:04 pm

headquest wrote:In a good editor you won't get conversion problems in the first place...

Right, but I was just trying to give bduffy the benefit of the doubt because I misunderstood what he was saying and I didn't want to imply that he was

with any other answer.

Greg

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:07 pm

I see. By the way, it's more amazing that Tracktion DOES let you do this

.
Nice

Most software converts everything to the same sample rate.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:11 pm

And yet, I'm so used to it that it boggles me that other software converts.

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:41 pm

Hypertone wrote:
rockstar_not wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Goldwave is brilliant and does chains etc:

http://www.goldwave.com/
Exactly. This is a great audio editor - free - no VST, but does support DX - and has about a million file types that it can shuttle back and forth between.

-Scott
I thought it was $55?

It is for a nag free version without a time limit. I've never hit the limit in using it before a new version comes out - then I download that version - clock starts over.

For all intents and purposes, it's a freebie. But I'm like Lunch Money, I rarely go to it - I do almost all necessary editing in my host.

-Scott

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:14 pm

Lunch Money wrote: (actually, 64-bit, but through the soundcard's converters, which downsample to 24-bit before converting to analog, if I understand correctly)

Strictly speaking you truncate word lengths (bit depths), and you only "downsample" when reducing the samplerate.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:18 pm

Lunch Money wrote:AAaahhhh, bduffy, NOW I've gotcha, I think.

Tracktion'll play back any combination of sample rates and bit depths all in the same timeline without conversion. I'm amazed that Cubase doesn't.

I'm so happy! We now get it. Phew!

Are you serious?!? That's amazing...locked samplerates are pretty standard with sequencers. Are you sure it's not being converted on-the-fly or anything?

I'll bet there's no demo of Traktion, so that I could test this (I've been meaning to check it out, too)?

EDIT: No, sorry, there is. I'm going to try this puppy and see what the hoopla's all about.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:19 pm

Just as an example of a situation where an audio editor is essential: I get a lot of work editing full length tracks down to ringtone-length loops (2 different length loops for each title).. doing this in a DAW would be a right royal PITA, but Sounforge's loop tuning is perfectly designed for the job, and it also allows me to batch-convert the edits into all the different audio formats required (sometimes as many as 10 files per title

)

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:23 pm

bduffy wrote:
Lunch Money wrote:AAaahhhh, bduffy, NOW I've gotcha, I think.

Tracktion'll play back any combination of sample rates and bit depths all in the same timeline without conversion. I'm amazed that Cubase doesn't.
I'm so happy! We now get it. Phew!

Are you serious?!? That's amazing...locked samplerates are pretty standard with sequencers. Are you sure it's not being converted on-the-fly or anything?

I'll bet there's no demo of Traktion, so that I could test this (I've been meaning to check it out, too)?

EDIT: No, sorry, there is. I'm going to try this puppy and see what the hoopla's all about.

Actually it is all converted on the fly, to 32-bit float & the project samplerate, so not ideal for mastering source thats all in different formats.. but if you are bringing together your own Tracktion mixes there is no need for them to be at different samplerates anyway, hopefully!

You should still check it out though: it rocks even though it doesn't replace a proper audio editor!

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:46 pm

Actually, I can't try it out. I keep getting this error:

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:21 pm

I'm the victim of not knowing exactly the right words.

So, I have now added to my personal knowledge base and memory banks that Tracktion truncates, and that it converts on the fly.

Funny how much this stuff is just 'invisible' to me. I guess I don't have anything that's still clipping upon truncation, and I've never noticed any artifacts from mixing sample rates/bit depths and mastering. I know for SURE that I've mixed and matched 16/44.1 and 24/44.1, plus mixing OGG and WAV. Don't think I've mixed AIFF in there, though.

Then again, I'm also a guy who wouldn't notice phase artifacts from the crossovers of multiband compressors. I'm quite satisfied with what it's doing.

Greg

PS, because people seem touchy today (not in this thread, but in general!

) I'm not saying ANY of this in a snarky way, but in a genuine "Cool, I've just learned something" and "Whoah, I'd never notice!" kind of way.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:27 pm

Lunch Money wrote:
So, I have now added to my personal knowledge base and memory banks that Tracktion truncates, and that it converts on the fly.

Sort of: Tracktion converts sample-rate on the fly, but it only "truncates" when you ask it to, ie: when you export a file with fewer than 32-bits.

Reducing the bit-depth is the same as "truncating the wordlength" and is the thing that should happen just after dither noise is added. (I was only taking issue with the terminology you used!)

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:31 pm

Lunch Money wrote:
Funny how much this stuff is just 'invisible' to me. .

Its invisible because Tracktion does its job well.

However, in a 'proper' mastering situation the DAW used should be capable of editing an already mastered 16-bit file without having to change the bit-depth and re-dither. Tracktion can't do that because everything becomes 32-bit when imported.

Also, Tracktion's on-the-fly sample-rate conversion is probably not the very best available..

jasonsantiago · Post by **jasonsantiago** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:54 pm

headquest wrote:A good audio editor lets you do things to an audio file which in a sequencer would be either:

A. Impossible. e.g.
* destrucitve editing
* Audition's frequency spectrum editing where you remove or add effects to certain specified frequencies only, etc)
* snapping to a zero-crossing when selecting or slicing, which is important but impossible in either of the big hosts I own

* destructive editing is now in almost all hosts. Cubase/Nuendo, Pro tools, Sonar, Digital Performer... the only one I can think of is Logic, which is pretty sad.
* snapping to zero crossings is a feature of most host apps, but you need to read the manual usually to find out.

Why no cheap or free audio editors for Windows?