*sold*

[headquest]

So Far, the demo's i tried today were very uninspiring, and some had way too much of a learning curve (although one may be of use for live work...)

I certainly found that Ableton was a "grower", and bearing in mind I have spent longer with it than any of the others, it's fair to assume they may have grown on me more if I had given them the same attention. Perhaps demoing for one day is not enough...

In any case, I think it would help more if you could be a bit more specific about:

1) what it is you are looking for - a feature list, perhaps...
and 2) in what way is Orion letting you down - what is missing/problematic (as that may help answer your initial question).

I think the main alternatives have all been mentioned, but by clariying your needs and spending longer with the demos, hopefully you can find a "good fit" and we can be as helpful as possible

[FaX]

So Far, the demo's i tried today were very uninspiring, and some had way too much of a learning curve (although one may be of use for live work...)

How about using an RM1X/RS7000 or other hardware Based Seq to drive the stuff from within your host it's what I'm going back to actually as it gives me better workflow personally.

Though both of those are great for improv work and on the fly jams once you've got everything into the units themselves .
They can save Midifiles that could be loaded into your host etc ?
Just and idea.

[BONES]

no no no, not a different beast anymore ... it used to only be Wasp but now with FL6 its WaspXT as well

Not according to both www.flstudio.com or www.pluginspot.com it isn't. The link to WaspXT on the FL site gives a 404 error so I have no way of knowing whether or not its the same as ours. Care to post a screenshot?

You will of course still be able to use your favourite Orion synths in Ableton, possibly as VST instruments (if Orion lets you) or else simply by rewiring Orion into Ableton.

Did it not occur to you that there might be a really good reason why Krim wants to use something other than ORION? All he'd be doing if he followed your suggestion is needlessly complicating his workflow.

[arke]

Well, Image-Line is really good at not updating their website ... heres a screenshot I just made. Notice the absence of the "Fruity Wrapper" which it uses for anything thats not a native Fruity plug, and also the "demo" in the title bar

[headquest]

You will of course still be able to use your favourite Orion synths in Ableton, possibly as VST instruments (if Orion lets you) or else simply by rewiring Orion into Ableton.

Did it not occur to you that there might be a really good reason why Krim wants to use something other than ORION? All he'd be doing if he followed your suggestion is needlessly complicating his workflow.

I think we're all quite keen to know why he wants to move beyond Orion. It will help us to help him

There is a hint in his OP that he is after a different sequencing environment, and he also implied he is not getting rid of Orion, merely diversifying.

If all that is true, then Ableton (or one of the others listed) may be what he is after, particularly in view of its advanced MIDI and auido looping features, with Clip Envelopes, etc. In which case he may still wish to use Orion as a rack of instruments and effects within Live/etc via Rewire (as I do with Reason of course). Neither eXT nor most of the trackers will allow this integration, but Ableton, P5, Acid and FL all would. And depending on the combination, the shared workflow of two mutually complementary programs can for some peopl be really quite inspiring.

It will take a while of demoing for him to really explore all these ideas of course

(after which he may simply conclude that Orion is his dream host after all).

[BONES]

There is a hint in his OP that he is after a different sequencing environment, and he also implied he is not getting rid of Orion, merely diversifying.

No there's not. In fact, he is having a few rendering problems. I'm not yet convinced that its ORION's fault but it may well be. So anything that still includes ORION in the equation is not likely to solve his problems.

arke, that seems to have all the features of our WaspXT, I just don't know how anyone could work with an instrument where the parameters are so all over the place. The GUI seems like it was done by someone who has no idea how to use a synth.

[headquest]

There is a hint in his OP that he is after a different sequencing environment, and he also implied he is not getting rid of Orion, merely diversifying.

No there's not. In fact, he is having a few rendering problems. I'm not yet convinced that its ORION's fault but it may well be.

Aha. Thanks for the extra info then Bones

So anything that still includes ORION in the equation is not likely to solve his problems.

I don't understand your point there. If he uses Orion as a Rewire slave, then the audio engine in Orion is disabled (the Rewire host's audio engine is used exclusively, via the rewire stream). Also the rendering is done by the rewire host.

Assuming that you are "in the know" regarding Krim's particular issues though, I will chuck in a recommendation for Adobe Audition 2.0.

Krim: if you like Orion's sequencing approach and synths, you might find that running it as a rewire slave within Audition 2.0 gives you the best of both worlds - the sequencer you know and love running inside arguably the best audio environment on Windows.

[arke]

There is a hint in his OP that he is after a different sequencing environment, and he also implied he is not getting rid of Orion, merely diversifying.

No there's not. In fact, he is having a few rendering problems. I'm not yet convinced that its ORION's fault but it may well be. So anything that still includes ORION in the equation is not likely to solve his problems.

arke, that seems to have all the features of our WaspXT, I just don't know how anyone could work with an instrument where the parameters are so all over the place. The GUI seems like it was done by someone who has no idea how to use a synth.

Erm .. thats exactly how WaspXT also looks by default in Orion, or at least here

IL licensed WaspXT from Synapse, I believe.

[BONES]

Yes, but in ORION I don't have to keep it that way. My WaspXT has everything laid out, as far as possible, to follow the signal path.

[DHR53]

[spaceman]

Yes, but in ORION I don't have to keep it that way. My WaspXT has everything laid out, as far as possible, to follow the signal path.

amazing.. must be short-listed for a nobel price for signal path following gui design

[BONES]

Well I suppose if you have absolutely no understanding of synthesis it wouldn't matter in the slightest how the controls were arranged but putting things in the order in which they affect the sound makes it somewhat faster and more intuitive for those of us who actually know what we're doing. I suppose you rely on your friends at Propellerheads to know what's best for you? Or your Mommy.

[superddman]

how come spaceman and bones hate eachother so much?

[headquest]

Bones hates most people, but spaceman is more selective

[Kriminal]

Erm .. thats exactly how WaspXT also looks by default in Orion, or at least here

IL licensed WaspXT from Synapse, I believe.

There is no Aftertouch....there is here. There maybe some code diff too, depends on how long ago they got a new version.