KVR Audio

ATS · Post by **ATS** » Sat May 27, 2006 6:55 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:
bobby yarrow wrote:(I'm going to admit that, surprisingly enough, I bought the power pack based on this thread. I had been meaning to get IR-L, and getting the extra plugins for a few bucks more made it easier to live with. I have no need for any of them, including IR-L, and I doubt I'll use anything other than IR-L and the doubler much at all, but it still seemed like a good deal. If I didn't already have a ton of VST comps & eqs, it'd be an even better deal.)
Isn't it true that you'll have to pay for WUP every year since now?

You don't have to buy it every year. It is an option. If you don't you just can't get the extra plugs that come out with the bundles. You can still use them legally without wup.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:11 pm

ATS, what about alabamian's post? Isn't Waves tried to force him to purchase WUP? I was thinking that WUP is necessary to receive updates (even critical ones) - it is not only about the new plug-ins.

VST 2.4 and 64-bit is around the corner - to my knowledge these should not require major investment from any developer (just a new compiler and a dozen of human labour hours), but is Waves going to offer such update to customers with WUP only?

ATS · Post by **ATS** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:22 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:ATS, what about alabamian's post? Isn't Waves tried to force him to purchase WUP? I was thinking that WUP is necessary to receive updates (even critical ones) - it is not only about the new plug-ins.

VST 2.4 and 64-bit is around the corner - to my knowledge these should not require major investment from any developer (just a new compiler and a dozen of human labour hours), but is Waves going to offer such update to customers with WUP only?

well here is the web part that talks about WUP. http://register.waves.com/waves/wvclien ... estion=wup The way I understand it you can get the critical updates if there are any but in order to go to like 4 to 5 you have to have WUP.

about alabamian's This is messed up though imo "iLok authorization for Waves products is available for version 4.0 and higher, and applies to Waves products covered by Waves Update Plan only. Products not currently covered by Waves Update Plan are not entitled to an iLok authorization.
"

But with most people they don't have to worry though nowdays because you won't need another authorization.

I don't think it is any different from like Linplug charging for updates fom like 2.0 to 3.0.

bobby yarrow · Post by **bobby yarrow** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:25 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:
bobby yarrow wrote:(I'm going to admit that, surprisingly enough, I bought the power pack based on this thread. I had been meaning to get IR-L, and getting the extra plugins for a few bucks more made it easier to live with. I have no need for any of them, including IR-L, and I doubt I'll use anything other than IR-L and the doubler much at all, but it still seemed like a good deal. If I didn't already have a ton of VST comps & eqs, it'd be an even better deal.)
Isn't it true that you'll have to pay for WUP every year since now?

Well, right, it's been explained, you don't HAVE to buy it, and if I'm not using the plugins a year from now when my WUP is up, I won't. But even if I do, it's $40/year or something.

The notion that a buyer of a plugin is entitled to lifetime utility from that plugin is a noble one, and I think it's great that you operate that way. For me, anything other than analog hardware is a short-term buy. (Even hardware -- what do you think the prime operating life of a $3,000 pair of monitors is? 10 years, MAYBE?) And then there's the computer itself. I don't expect the $5K or whatever I've got 'invested' in my 2 DAWs to buy me anything that'll be even operable 5 years from now. I'm not saying Waves isn't a bunch of scoundrels, I'm sure they are. I'm just saying that I don't think of the digital stuff in my studio as having much of a chance at long-term utility.

Except, I suppose, my plugins from you.

(Which are superb, as I feel obliged to say whenever we 'talk.' Now if I could just figure out what the extra 6 channels in Pristine Space are for . . . )

Scotrick · Post by **Scotrick** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:30 pm

But what happened to me is that because I had used their disk authorization for my plug-ins, I was fine... no need for an iLok... then I either upgraded my hard drive or changed a network card or enabled a raid driver on my system or something that triggered the need for a reauthorization... when I went and tried to authorize my disk again... it said that disk authorizations were no longer allowed... and what WAS allowed, why the iLok of course...

so THEN I bought the iLok... THEN they told me that because I wasn't covered by the WUP I couldn't use it...

I would have bought the damn thing when I WAS covered by the WUP plan if I had known it would be required... but basically they wanted to force me (if I wanted to continue to use plug-ins that I had invested nearly three thousand dollars in) to upgrade to the newest WUP plan, just to use what I already owned...

so while the disclaimer about needing WUP to authorize an iLok is on the site... they don't tell you that they are no longer offering the OTHER form of copy protection, oh, and how much was the WUP? 300.00... and when I suggested I might have the money in a couple of months, the support person replied, "oh, well, it'll have gone up by then,"

total extortionary tactics...

it's ironic because I have nothing against dongles in general, nor copy protection, just getting screwed by a company I had supported was sorry... and even though I'm just a nobody musician I tell all my other nobody musician friends to forget Waves...

bobby yarrow · Post by **bobby yarrow** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:31 pm

Sidenote: People have taken a couple of pokes at Waves tech support. I had to hold for 10 minutes -- ilok authorization problem, naturally -- and then I got this really nice guy on the phone who walked me thru it.

Second sidenote: My least favorite thing about this Waves deal is that, having authorized the plugins to an ilok, the plugins are now forever tied to THAT ilok. That is, waves doesn't participate in the ilok scheme where you can transfer licenses from one ilok to another, and or replace your ilok and re-download licenses anytime you need to.

bobby yarrow · Post by **bobby yarrow** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:33 pm

Third sidenote: alabamian, it sounds like you got totally screwed. I can see how it happened, and it's just about actionable.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:38 pm

I'm surprised this is legal. I mean, you buy the (expensive) product, authorize it, and they have a responsibility to support the customer! Amazing. We haven't upgrade Waves at work in years, it's just not worth it. I was thinking about getting the Waves SSL bundle, but I don't think I can support Nazi tactics like WUP.

A dongle is one thing - but WUP is the snarling snout of unfettered capitalism.

sounddesigner · Post by **sounddesigner** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:29 pm

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but don't if you buy one of waves cheap bundles you still have to buy the ilock separately? If this is true then the price of the bundle is more then advertised.I own CSR wich has a dongle, its expensive to replace but it is replaceable,if waves cannot be replaced then it is a serious gamble to buy.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:43 pm

bobby yarrow, there is nothing 'noble' in offering free minor version updates. It is a normal practice. I just do not clearly understand why WUP is necessary, because major plug-in updates are usually not free. Maybe it's Waves who are noble after all? (it looks like they may offer a $500 plug-in for $40 ?)

bobby yarrow · Post by **bobby yarrow** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:44 pm

Yes, you have to own an ilok. You can have other things on the ilok -- regular, registered-thru-ilok keys -- but you can't manage you waves liceneses thru ilok.

It is replacable, but you have to mail in the broken one and all that sort of nonsense. Makes it dangerous if downtime is completely unacceptable, as it for me and for anyone who takes money to make recordings. Waves claims they can temporarily harddrive authorize the plugins, so maybe it's not a huge problem, but it's at least another strike against them.

bobby yarrow · Post by **bobby yarrow** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:48 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:bobby yarrow, there is nothing 'noble' in offering free minor version updates. It is a normal practice. I just do not clearly understand why WUP is necessary, because major plug-in updates are usually not free. Maybe it's Waves who are noble after all? (it looks like they may offer a $500 plug-in for $40 ?)

Yes, that is the other side of the coin. If you were paying your WUP, the upgrade to 5 was no extra charge. And if you bought an original power pack native in 199X and kept up with it, you got the new plugins that were added to the bundle (IR-L, doubler (i.e., the only 2 I wanted)) for no extra charge.

Doesn't NI do something like this too?

bobby yarrow · Post by **bobby yarrow** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:50 pm

(And what are those extra 6 slots for again?

)

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Sat May 27, 2006 11:12 pm

bobby yarrow, those 6 slots are for surround sound. For stereo they can be used to perform 'true stereo' convolution, or serial convolution (though, the latter one introduces latency that is not compensated).

bobby yarrow · Post by **bobby yarrow** » Sat May 27, 2006 11:56 pm

(Thank you. I know it's hardly an appropriate way to present the question, but I feel like the ( ) makes it ok. My understanding from your forums -- a much more appropriate place for this question -- is that SX3 won't route to anything except L and R for PS purposes. So if I'm using SX3, with mono sources, I should stick to the first 2 slots, and if it's the master buss (which I can't imagine doing, but you never know), then I use 'true stero' 4 slots, right? Thanks.)

Waves Over Priced? Maybe - Maybe not...