VSTis as good as hardware? Similar to Access Virus Quality?

[fgimian]

thanks Jo, i will give z3ta another go too

and huge thanks to everyone else too, this has turned out to be very enlightening

Fots

[moosethree]

something with the programming power (not a vst) would be Solaris for the Pulsar by John Bowen

[fgimian]

I've actually been reading a lot around here that the Pulsar synths (and Scope stuff) are top end. This might be a great option since the entire Pulsar is probably worth around half the value of a Virus.

Fots

[erminardi]

The ONLY choice to soustitute Virus is a counterpart in DSP world like Creamware's synths. Period.
No one native VST/VSTi sounds so accurate like i.e. Minimax, Modular+Flexor, Prodyssey, Pro-12, Solaris, BiOscIII, etc.
These synths works standalone in Scope enviroment or also in true VSTi as XTC mode.
Check also for TC Powercore virus.
A lot of people, here in KVR, hates DSP stuff... I really don't know why, if the difference is so evident.
Maybe bad reference monitors or a blind faith for native

[Josmoker]

The ONLY choice to soustitute Virus is a counterpart in DSP world like Creamware's synths. Period.
No one native VST/VSTi sounds so accurate like i.e. Minimax, Modular+Flexor, Prodyssey, Pro-12, Solaris, BiOscIII, etc.
These synths works standalone in Scope enviroment or also in true VSTi as XTC mode.
Check also for TC Powercore virus.
A lot of people, here in KVR, hates DSP stuff... I really don't know why, if the difference is so evident.
Maybe bad reference monitors or a blind faith for native Wink

That's bollocks. There's a number of really great sounding native VSTis available as well as the standard synths that come bundled with the Pulsar aren't better than your standard native stuff. There is some really nice stuff available for the Scope sytem, though. The synths you mentioned are apparently top notch, don't suit my workflow, though, as i'm an "all in the host"-type of guy - I do use the Vinco and MasterVerb Pro and they are brilliant! Still not unmatched in the native world, though.

This might be a great option since the entire Pulsar is probably worth around half the value of a Virus.

I don't think you will get the same number of voices going with your standard Scope system, you need to be aware of that, and you also need to pay extra for the really nice stuff.

Just to put things in perspective.

Cheers, Jo

[knot0fvipers]

soundpalace, for pure sound quality there is the korg collection, arturia, and Minimonsta. Thats it. all the other synths mentioned sound like shit if your talking "just" sound quality.
None of those though can touch a virus filter. Just save up and get a used virus b if you want something like the virus, there is no other choice.
Thats not to say that alot of the synths mentioned here are not amazing. Take absynth for example, the sound quality of the oscilators is terrible but when the whole thing comes togather absynth can make sounds a virus could not touch.
Buy a real virus, then look for softsynths that make other sounds to compliment the virus.
The truth is that these smaller software companies can't compete with a whole team of mad german DSP gurus. There is no sense for the softsynth companies to spend the time/money in refineing the algorithms to the point of a virus or good hardware korg synth, most people can't hear the difference anyway.

[Urs]

a whole team of mad german DSP gurus.

Well, Mr. Kemper is also not exactly a team

But you're right, mad German DSP gurus is the way to go!

Urs

[projectdan]

The truth is that these smaller software companies can't compete with a whole team of mad german DSP gurus. There is no sense for the softsynth companies to spend the time/money in refineing the algorithms to the point of a virus or good hardware korg synth, most people can't hear the difference anyway.

Yeah, right on! Access are a big company, even at the start when they did the filter. The only way to get great filters is to pay 10 people to do it, thats a fact. They just need to hire 4 or 5 people to work on the modulation and they might figure out they need more envelopes on it.

[3*s]

eh, the virus filters aren't all that amazing. They're great, but hardly untouchable.

I think it comes down to raw processing power. I don't hear anything sophisticated in terms of analog modeling from the virus filter, but it clearly updates more quickly that most synths when being told to modulate via an envelope or lfo.

I'm guessing most native VST filter code doesn't update as fast as possible, eg 1/44100 of a second? Maybe the dedicated CPU on the virus is powerful enough for this?

I'm just guessing here, I've never programmed a VA, maybe some developer could enlighten us.

Anyway, try Firebird for a similar filter character. It reminds me more of Virus filters than any native VSTi.

[nuffink]

soundpalace, for pure sound quality there is the korg collection, arturia, and Minimonsta. Thats it. all the other synths mentioned sound like shit if your talking "just" sound quality.
None of those though can touch a virus filter. Just save up and get a used virus b if you want something like the virus, there is no other choice.
Thats not to say that alot of the synths mentioned here are not amazing. Take absynth for example, the sound quality of the oscilators is terrible but when the whole thing comes togather absynth can make sounds a virus could not touch.
Buy a real virus, then look for softsynths that make other sounds to compliment the virus.
The truth is that these smaller software companies can't compete with a whole team of mad german DSP gurus. There is no sense for the softsynth companies to spend the time/money in refineing the algorithms to the point of a virus or good hardware korg synth, most people can't hear the difference anyway.

Another stamp collector. No tunes. No www. No clue. Same M.O. as all the other stamp collectors.

I'll bet he's got an apogee.

[Urs]

Access are a big company, even at the start when they did the filter. The only way to get great filters is to pay 10 people to do it, thats a fact.

The filter and most of the rest was written by just one person: Christoph Kemper.

It doesn't take loads of people to write 50 lines of code. It just takes the right idea.

Urs

[Algorythm]

None of those though can touch a virus filter.
The truth is that these smaller software companies can't compete with a whole team of mad german DSP gurus. There is no sense for the softsynth companies to spend the time/money in refineing the algorithms to the point of a virus or good hardware korg synth, most people can't hear the difference anyway.

Well, you retain the "myth" of the so - caled "hi-end" Access synths. It's just a myth.As you already said, if there are differences in the quality of the sound, the most people can't hear them especially in a mix!!!
A company doesn't need lots of developers (mad German DSP gurus) to make a proper algorithm..They have teams to produce things quicker..Many times a team can make a worst product than one developer alone. You are totally wrong if you believe that when you put many programmers together, they will get you a better program.They will finish it quicker but you can't say that it's better, because you don't know the experience one programmer can have. Don't praising Virus line, and hear the results of today's vstis. They are not real analog synths and neither Access Virus is a real analog synth. Both are based in 0 and 1. With today's cpu's, pcs can make wonders..you hear them, they continuously evolve, month by month..Hardware VA synths haven't got so much space to evolve. They depend on marketing tricks like luxury wooden and metal parts, mixed applications (audio I/O+Synth+Controller) plus the ever growing useless list of features like 1228 oscs per voice, 2345 voices , 800 lfo waves blah blah blah...

[The Chase]

soundpalace, for pure sound quality there is the korg collection, arturia, and Minimonsta. Thats it. all the other synths mentioned sound like shit if your talking "just" sound quality.
None of those though can touch a virus filter. Just save up and get a used virus b if you want something like the virus, there is no other choice.
Thats not to say that alot of the synths mentioned here are not amazing. Take absynth for example, the sound quality of the oscilators is terrible but when the whole thing comes togather absynth can make sounds a virus could not touch.
Buy a real virus, then look for softsynths that make other sounds to compliment the virus.
The truth is that these smaller software companies can't compete with a whole team of mad german DSP gurus. There is no sense for the softsynth companies to spend the time/money in refineing the algorithms to the point of a virus or good hardware korg synth, most people can't hear the difference anyway.

Im sorry but that's a bunch of Ill points. Saying that virus filters are great...and that absynth oscillators are poor..."all the other synths mentioned sound like shit if your talking "just" sound quality"..."that these smaller software companies can't compete with a whole team of mad german DSP gurus"...these are things you almost always hear from the people who havent even played a virus. DSP gurus? o rly? wow, if only audio software designers knew anything about DSP as much as the hardware software designers eh most people can't hear the difference anyway...you got that part right

[The Chase]

The only way to get great filters is to pay 10 people to do it, thats a fact.

See: Indivisuals here in their 20's who code better filters than those on the virus as a hobby and offer their creations for free.

A lot of people, here in KVR, hates DSP stuff

actually I bet zero people here hate digital signal processing because their computers use it to make music. I think it's just some people become annoyed from companies like creamware and Access using it as a buzzword to lure idiots. They do the same thing with "algorythm". "New big dick DSP algorythms make the [enter hardware digital synth] 1337er than any synth EVER! BUY IT BUY IT BUY IT BUY IT NOW!!!!!!1"

[/rant over]

[Algorythm]

Mad German Dsp Gurus (MGDG)