KVR Audio

The Chase · Post by **The Chase** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:03 am

I'll grant you that

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:10 am

Karmacomposer wrote:JMC has PM'd me as well and I will be letting them know what I lost as a result of the faulty Toxic III uninstaller. As you all may or may not know, it deleted my entire VSTI folder - with over 150GB of data and presets - a LOT (right around 10GB of sample loops and data and hundreds and hundreds of presets) of which was products I was working on for a variety of companies and for my own products I was going to be releaseing. Now I will have to start all over again and some synths and data I may have lost forever.

I am still a bit devestated over losing the data - I had some GREAT stuff done.

Mike

why the hell did you put all that shit in your vst folder?!??!?!?

7thsense · Post by **7thsense** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:12 am

Karmacomposer wrote:JMC has PM'd me as well and I will be letting them know what I lost as a result of the faulty Toxic III uninstaller. As you all may or may not know, it deleted my entire VSTI folder - with over 150GB of data and presets - a LOT (right around 10GB of sample loops and data and hundreds and hundreds of presets) of which was products I was working on for a variety of companies and for my own products I was going to be releaseing. Now I will have to start all over again and some synths and data I may have lost forever.

I am still a bit devestated over losing the data - I had some GREAT stuff done.

Mike

did you try using data recovery software like get data back and active@undelete? that data may still be on your drive.

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:28 am

spaceman wrote:
Karmacomposer wrote:JMC has PM'd me as well and I will be letting them know what I lost as a result of the faulty Toxic III uninstaller. As you all may or may not know, it deleted my entire VSTI folder - with over 150GB of data and presets - a LOT (right around 10GB of sample loops and data and hundreds and hundreds of presets) of which was products I was working on for a variety of companies and for my own products I was going to be releaseing. Now I will have to start all over again and some synths and data I may have lost forever.

I am still a bit devestated over losing the data - I had some GREAT stuff done.

Mike
why the hell did you put all that shit in your vst folder?!??!?!?

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:39 pm

egarrard wrote:
Teksonik wrote:Sure you could say back up,back up,back up, but in no way should any blame be put on the end user if a piece of software's uninstaller is faulty.
Only a 4-year-old child thinks that all his toys will work perfectly all the time. Any company can screw up their software at any time and any computer user ought to be well aware of that fact.

ImageLine had a bug in the uninstaller. Big deal. They fixed it as soon as they learned of it, just like they should have. I had the same uninstaller on my system. I had exactly zero problems removing the Toxic III demo. Most of the people had no problems either.

It's the stupidest of fools who doesn't do a backup ever now and then. If he had done regular backups like he was supposed to, he would never have lost all his stuff. All he would have to do is copy his backup into the deleted folder. But no, ImageLine keeps getting blamed for someone else's negligence. Folks, they're not your momma!

Sorry, but I'm getting tired of hearing ImageLine getting bashed for something that wasn't their fault. ReverseEngineer, you are right on the money. The current philosophy seems to be "responsibility is something 'others' should have and not ourselves".

Sorry, yeah, I haven't read this whole thread, but just had to comment on this post...

Nobody's bashing Image-Line, as far as I can tell - sure, they may end up having to pay thousands of dollars to compensate Karmacomposer's loss, but that's the risk of running a company. It would be different if Karma were being negligent - but he wasn't. You don't have to back up every day or even every month to be reasonably safe - there was a case where a guy stored his screenplays, worth millions of dollars, on his Desktop for years and they were deleted unknowingly by a technician - THAT is negligence, and he lost his law-suit.

The root of your argument is that Karma was being negligent - and I don't think a reasonable person could agree with you.

Vonbrucken · Post by **Vonbrucken** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:16 pm

Karmacomposer
why the hell didn't you let toxic 3 in its own folder !
by default it must go in its own folder !!

sorry but admit you've got you part of responsability .

The Chase · Post by **The Chase** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:54 pm

Vonbrucken wrote:Karmacomposer
why the hell didn't you let toxic 3 in its own folder !
by default it must go in its own folder !!

sorry but admit you've got you part of responsability .

he did. I (and like 12 others) already asked him that. It went up a level.

Karmacomposer · Post by **Karmacomposer** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:02 pm

Vonbrucken,

Read this topic. I stated at least once, if not twice, that it WAS in it's own folder. I also stated that I back up regularly. Finally, I stated that Toxic III deleted itself and everything TWO LEVELS UP - that NEVER happens in programs unless it was programmed incorrectly.

To answer Spaceman: WHY THE HELL DID YOU PUT YOUR DATA ON YOUR J DRIVE????????? Get the point. There is no more reading and writing going on in your VST folder than any other drive or folder - it's irrelevant.

7thsense: As stated in another thread that was similar in scope - YES - I did try - INSTANTLY to recover my data with a known undeleter - it failed. I had stopped the deleting towards the end when I REALIZED it was happening. I then tried to undelete - it was a no go. Just unrecognizeable crap. I was truly screwed at that point.

Rellik: Thank you. I am a pretty normal, technological and sane individual. I used to build computers and fix them for a living and am a programmer, so I am not a technological dummy. If I could have solved this situation via software, I would have.

I DID have a backup of SOME of it. However, I lost synths that were created by companies no longer in business (and that have archaic copy protection), I lost new stuff I was JUST working on and THAT was really the important stuff - all only a few weeks old.

Yeah, I back up regularly, but when you are in the middle of a project or two, you may do a lot of SAVES, but backups are reserved for DOWN TIME - I have not had any really. Like I said previously, I backup almost monthly (sometimes 5 or 6 weeks), but enough that I do not lose EVERYTHING.

If you don't run a business then you cannot POSSIBLY understand this whole situation - so I would ask that those that don't - take it at face value - you can lose a LOT MORE than some data when something like this happens - clients, reputation, and of course, payment. The client does not care what happens to you - just why their stuff is not done on time. AND this industry is neither caring nor understanding about any of this - THEY DON'T GIVE A CRAP! And they will tell everyone they know if they feel they have been screwed or if you in any way hurt THEIR business.

I hope that clears all those questions up. Now, BACK TO WORK!!!

Mike

Karmacomposer · Post by **Karmacomposer** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:15 pm

[well, work can wait for a moment - I am waiting for a client to call me back, so I am kinda stuck in limbo for the moment - time to read more KVR!!!!!!]

Tek: Thank you, by the way. I just read a few pages back. Wow - such passion for my lil ole plight. I consider you, ToTc, Tim and many others my good online friends. Thank you for caring dude - back at ya.

Look everyone. This will get taken care of. I am sure JMC will do me right or at least help me out. I do feel now that Imageline is a MUCH better company now than before this incident (funny enough) because of my OTHER problems with FL Studio 6 not working on ONE of my machines - obviously it is something on THAT machine and troubleshooting it will be a veritable NIGHTMARE. Since I rarely use FL6 anyway, it's not worth the trouble. It would be far easier to network my laptop or other computers and have FL6 run off of one of them and use rewire PLUS whatever networking technology will get the job done.

So, why not just leave this at IMAGELINE IS A GOOD COMPANY. Their products are excellent - sometimes way ahead of everyone else as the unsung hero. And, occasionally, and in this case, rarely, bugs creep in and bad things happen. Maybe someone was asleep, tired, too much caffeine, having sex on his desk (I had to say that one, he he he) - or whatever - and just did not catch that one little typo or line (usually around line #43,191) that allowed Toxic III's uninstaller to wipe crap out.

They supposedly fixed it. We'll see, because if not, the next victim will refer to all of these threads with more venom than this - of that I am sure.

Mike

Jason Brian Merrill · Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:43 pm

omicrom · Post by **omicrom** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:08 am

FL Studio can burn to smoldering ashes in the PIT for all I care. Long Live Tracktion 2.0

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:09 am

omicrom wrote: FL Studio can burn to smoldering ashes in the PIT for all I care. Long Live Tracktion 2.0

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:15 am

If anything like this happens again, i'm gonna make sure my system gets hosed too and i lose a lot of 'valuable' data. K'ching

I'm only kidding btw, the value of all the (irreplaceable) stuff on my comp amounts to about £2 and ten blank floppies.

adventurepants · Post by **adventurepants** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:59 am

I really feel for the original poster. As a sysadmin i see this every week. There may be a case for Imageline taking responsibility and there may not be. I have to chime in on this point though.

In the pro computing world, we just assume that the single most vital piece of hardware or software you have will fail every single minute of every single day and you plan for it. If you seriously make money from this and it is your business, then one of your business overheads is to have a system that is redundant. In your case that would be setting up a backup server that will run as soon as youre not doing anything on your work pc. This is not a luxury, it is part of the cost of doing business for you. Your hard drive could fail at any moment, regardless of price, brand or quality. Dragging the maker into some kind of legal wrangle may get you some cash, but will never bring back the blood, sweat and tears you have lost.

No matter how much data you have, it is incredibly unlikely that you will not be able to do an incremental backup of it every night while you are asleep. You can build this for very little outlay. If you have data that is critical, you have to follow the 3 level rule.

One "live" version of your data on your main pc, one backup copy resting on another hard drive, and one archived backup on some media off site, in case your pc explodes, the dog chews your backup hard drive and your house burns down in the same day, god forbid. Dont laugh, it has happened!

Running a backup once a month for a business is at gentlest, foolhardy.

Karma i highly recommend you run a recovery util mentioned above, if youve not done anything much to the hard drive it should all be still there. Good luck with IL.

pants

Carbonboy · Post by **Carbonboy** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:31 am

Karmacomposer wrote:Tek,

I backed up SOME of it - but most of the data I lost was for recent products and clients that are only a month or two old. Worse, I have deadlines and NONE of them can now be met. I was finished with almost ALL of them. Now I have to start over and risk losing those clients. Not to mention my own stuff that will now not see light of day that much sooner (or in this case, later).Mike

If you have mission critical data then it should be backed up. You pretend to be a professional (mention 'clients') but don't seem to be managing a professional operation. With the price of 300 GB USB drives now so low, there simply is no excuse.

I back up all my data once a week. If I am doing mission critical work, more often and have an off-site copy that is updated monthly.

Carb.

Praise for Image-Line