KVR Audio

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:18 pm

BLynx wrote:Did I mention you can't program for the Playstation 3 AT ALL if you're a hobbyst or indie developer...???

Im not fully getting your point, TBH. All the major games consoles have closed developer programs. We know that. However those that do still seem to allow middleware.

OTOH, none of the general-purpose devices, from personal computers to smartphones, have closed developer programs. Except for the direction Apple is heading in.

hxcobd · Post by **hxcobd** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:19 pm

The Unreal Engine has and will continue to be used on both the 360 and PS3.

BLynx · Post by **BLynx** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:22 pm

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robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:23 pm

...and the Infinite Improbability Drive will continue to be used in the Heart of Gold.

BLynx · Post by **BLynx** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:26 pm

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whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:29 pm

BLynx wrote:Yes, but what you said:

That's what they do with the XBox... and btw, I think that's something nice from them.

The XBox isnt a PC and games consoles have pretty much always been closed developer setups.

On the other hand, other code engines generating c~ would still be allowed, whereas Apple have specifically excluded that. That's the middleware/cross-platform aspect of it.

But IMO, Apple will back off on that... they're only after Flash, anyways... if they don't, who cares, I wouln't buy an iPhone anyway...

if they start making exceptions based on who it is, they will get sued by Adobe, and it'd be sufficient evidence to cause them to lose any case Adobe raise. But whilst I think Flash is one target, its not the only one; I really do think Android is the other one.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:30 pm

Not sure how consoles got into on this. They are dedicated to one purpose whereas PC are general purpose. Its always been hard/expensive to code for consoles.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:32 pm

BLynx wrote:However, I was mentioning whyterabbyt's post about forcing users to use your compiler and toolchain, which both companies (Sony and Microsoft) forces you, by the way. And Sony doesn't even allow common people to program for it. Same with Nintendo.

when did they change that from you being able to develop in anything you wanted? or exclude middleware, or cross-platform code generators that spat out code suitable for the compiler and toolchain? you're picking up on one half of an analogy in a larger argument, and missing the argument.

Just my two cents. You people are demonizing Apple for being so closed when it is much worse with Video Games for almost 30 years...

No, we're criticizing Apple for locking down what was previously open. Big difference.

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:36 pm

I don't think that Adobe is a long-term "victim" here..

BLynx · Post by **BLynx** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:38 pm

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cybertron · Post by **cybertron** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:39 pm

spaceman wrote:
cybertron wrote:
robojam wrote:
cybertron wrote:Capitalism, as very imperfect and rotten as it is, is still the best option at present percisely because as you noted above, its possible to have a choice, and excercise it by simply not buying (which is what I do).
The same is true of Communism, Socialism and Feudalism. Capitalism doesn't have a monopoly on giving people the choice to buy or not.
The range, breadth and depth of choice actually is the invention of Democracy and Capitalism (as they largely go hand in hand - "free market" - providing choice)
Problem is that there are few (or no) real democracies anywhere in the world, but plenty of capitalism.

That depends on your definition of democracy. It also depends on whether you view it as black and white or not. Personally I dont, I see it in shades of grey.

No - the US does not have true democracy. Canada imo has more "real" democracy than in the US, but is more socialist. Both allow consumer choice. My point was that consumer choice is very important and shouldnt be taken lightly.

Re: Consoles and not allowing 3rd party indie development. The poster above me got it right. Consoles are for entertainment purposes only, not for informational gathering purposes, or multi-use purposes, therefore its less of an issue if they are fascist pigs or not. Not only that but you have the options (although its about to dissapear) of playing most or the same games on the PC, and in some limited cases the Mac as well - giving the consumer a lot of choice.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:40 pm

BLynx wrote:The Unreal Engine would be allowed on iPad, btw.

Are you so sure? Isn't the inbuilt scripting technically excluded under the previous set of changes to the developer agreement which covered interpreted languages?

BLynx · Post by **BLynx** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:47 pm

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BLynx · Post by **BLynx** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:53 pm

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cybertron · Post by **cybertron** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:56 pm

BLynx wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
BLynx wrote:The Unreal Engine would be allowed on iPad, btw.
Are you so sure? Isn't the inbuilt scripting technically excluded under the previous set of changes to the developer agreement which covered interpreted languages?
Depends on how you read it... If interpreted languages aren't allowed, SQLite isn't... and there are lots of iPhone apps using SQLite already, probably even Apple apps.

And the Opera Browser would be locked out too, because it interprets HTML and Javascript.

I believe that "intermediary translation or compatibility layer" includes ONLY "application makers", not code-generators, code interpreters or stuff like that.

(ps: Is there CocoaRuby for iPhone? It works on Mac, why not on iPhone?)

I think I see a new career path here for me - IT/Development Lawyer

Apple was right, Adobe get over it?