Swingbeat; How do I do it?

[jancivil]

Your subjective impression doesn't cut it. It's there, '4.4.4.333' represents 2/3rd of my display resolution, 1000 pulses per quarter note.
There are 6 of those per quarter note: 1000 ÷ 6 = 166.66...; 2/3rds into the beat = the .333. There is nothing there. The kick drum is at the straight 16th (actually it's a hair off, I didn't warp the timeline at that point, did I.).
You're arguing with a maths result now.

[jancivil]

I'm pretty sure the Bobby Brown track from the OP is a quantized swing.

I'm 100% sure I showed it isn't. Whoever did it, LA Reid or whomever, has great time. However, the depiction of the Tempo Track in Nuendo reveals the variance which a quantized track will show, you know, QUANTIZED, ie., the same actual BPM at every point.

Am I the only person interested in a real proof rather than supposition and "I feel it is..." here?!

[christian f.]

Does dad dancing count?

if Dad can dance to : 1000 ÷ 6 = 166.66...; 2/3rds into the beat = the .333. then why not ?

[IncarnateX]

I am not going further into this example to deny any maths, but it does surprise me that the hats are just dotted and not swing-delayed every second time. I take the peaks from the hats confirm this too?

Not a bad feeling for a straight 16 then, though now I like to know how it is done by dotting and accents.

[vurt]

obviously, you can all keep arguing.
that's your prerogative...


thanks, im here all week, try the vole!

[IncarnateX]

Well, one thing this thread actually has told me is that I may want to have a Roland R8 myself or simply make my drums free hand more often. Have always been too lazy or mindless to avoid robot quantification so it is about time I loosen up myself. A tight BD and snare is ok with me but the hats reveal themselves to easily if quantified. There is room for more magic in those subdivs.

Hmm, why do I write this, I wonder? Maybe just to say that nothing is as bad that it ain't good for something. Even a classic KVR shit pile like this thread. That is a happy ending to me.

[vurt]

it was a bobby fuggin brown joke ffs!

[IncarnateX]

it was a bobby fuggin brown joke ffs!

Oh. Remember Poe’s law and the emoticons, then.Though I am not really sure I responded to you in particular but just thread impression as a whole.

[vurt]

po? the teletubbie?
when did he get a law?

did lala? or dipsy?
i know theres a tinky winky law, but that predates the teletubbies.

[IncarnateX]

You know I bombed the cave of those annoying small pricks the other day. They are all gone, if there is any justice in the world at all.

[vurt]

probably why the new laws came in

[cthonophonic]

I'm pretty sure the Bobby Brown track from the OP is a quantized swing.

I'm 100% sure I showed it isn't. Whoever did it, LA Reid or whomever, has great time. However, the depiction of the Tempo Track in Nuendo reveals the variance which a quantized track will show, you know, QUANTIZED, ie., the same BPM at every point.

Am I the only person that relies on facts rather than supposition and "I feel it is..." here?!

By quantized, I just mean recorded as 16th notes in a sequencer, with a shuffle added that delays every other 16th note by a specific amount. If you mean something else, like having a strictly uniform spacing for all notes, then we might be using different terms.

It's entirely possible that the beats were recorded by someone finger drumming with great time. However, at least for the section I looked at, the timing is also exactly what you would get on a Linn-type drum machine/sampler of that era with shuffle set to 60%. Indeed, if it was L.A. Reid doing the drums there, he was probably using a Linn 9000, which would at least allow for this possibility.

The technology is not the art, and the technology does not pre-determine the outcome. But when the outcome has features that bear a striking resemblance to those that the technology would enable/encourage, maybe we should at least acknowledge that there is some influence there?

Incidentally, it's mighty odd how someone creates an account here, immediately bumps a six year old thread to say "actually, Jan," then ghosts once the shitstorm ensues. It doesn't seem like any of this was started in good faith.

[jancivil]

Quantized in a sequencer means you make everything adhere to a single grid over a certain span you determine. Now, in modern terms you can very well create a 'groove template' or whatever the name is for a particular DAW and iterate a quantization the incoming whatever adheres to. In 1989 or like that you would be pretty stylin' to have that kinda technology.

The Bobby Brown definitely has the last kick in bars at around 2/3rds of beat 4, while the other thing does not.

Sorry, I'm a mite irritable in this thread, I'll chill.
to Incarnate, I can see how you would have that guess but I wanted to know, I didn't think it was, so I checked. Per the previous BPM, a hair in front of the expected grid; let's go with .257 vs .333. Not trivial.

For example of what I do, I had a good rhythmic guitarist remote session a part for me, in the reggae stylee.
His second skank per '4' varied from just over 60% to straight up 16th before 1, ie., 75%. This is all why I set the display res to a decimal figure, it turns out Cubendo's highest is 1000 ticks per 16th. I'm going to edit and edit some more so once upon a time I realized things can be known. I can play guitar and some drums but I'm not going to nail a whole lot with high latency on a keyboard if timing is a thing.

So I can kind of tell 16ths because I count them in things like 19/16: 4 quarters + 3/16 for example. You can't very reliably do that by feel, and if you do get a feel for it, what if it becomes 5/4 or 17/16 later?

It's entirely possible that the beats were recorded by someone finger drumming with great time. However, at least for the section I looked at, the timing is also exactly what you would get on a Linn-type drum machine/sampler of that era with shuffle set to 60%. Indeed, if it was L.A. Reid doing the drums there, he was probably using a Linn 9000, which would at least allow for this possibility.

Literally none of it iterates at 60%, though (unless later than bar 8 where I was relatively certain of the consistency of the time).
You would have to have a machine with AI dynamically shifting it a little bit (or intelligent 'humanization' which I'm skeptical of) the BPMs show these small differences.
For a close-enough-for-rock 'n roll ballpark figure, 66%.

As to the tech not determining style, I suppose not. "New Jack Swing", which interested me somewhat at the time because of the word 'swing', literally applies swing in spots where things really tended to be straight duple subdivision.

[vurt]

cant believe nobody got the bobby brown joke

[jancivil]

Hey there people, I'm Bobby Brown
They say I'm the cutest boy in town
My car is fast, my teeth is shiny
I tell all the girls they can kiss my heiny

Here I am at a famous school
I'm dressin' sharp and I'm actin' cool
Got a cheerleader here wants to help with my paper
Let her do all the work and maybe later I'll rape her

Oh God I am the American Dream
I do not think I'm too extreme
I'm a handsome son of a bitch
Gonna get a good job and be real rich