KVR Audio

pc999 · Post by **pc999** » Sun May 05, 2013 7:17 pm

TheoM wrote:Oh, did anyone know there's no rewire with absolutely zero plans to add it? There's a reason why some people will never switch from live right there.

Of all DAWs why would you want to rewire Live into Bitwig? Audio to Midi? It seems that everything else is on BWS.

On a side note I have always found rewire quite useless overall (unless you had reason a few years ago) and I really cant see why would anyone use it these days...

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Sun May 05, 2013 9:14 pm

pc999 wrote:On a side note I have always found rewire quite useless overall (unless you had reason a few years ago) and I really cant see why would anyone use it these days...

I for one do a lot of work in Studio One, it's the only way to integrate Live's sessions and Project 5 compositions, it works for me as well as expected so count me as one of those that use Rewire these days.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun May 05, 2013 9:44 pm

[DELETED]

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Mon May 06, 2013 2:51 am

Surprised that ReWire isn't on the table for them. While it has its detractors, there's no denying that it's got a lot of users.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon May 06, 2013 3:41 am

Are we there yet?

Muziksculp · Post by **Muziksculp** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:59 am

tapper mike wrote:Are we there yet?

NOT YET.... Still Evolving

wasi · Post by **wasi** » Mon May 06, 2013 7:26 am

robojam wrote:Surprised that ReWire isn't on the table for them. While it has its detractors, there's no denying that it's got a lot of users.

Yeah, it's a bit surprising. But I assume they chose Jack because it runs on all platforms. ReWire doesn't run on Linux, and for a 1.0 release they should rightfully focus on stuff that will run for all platforms. Besides, unless you need transport sync on windows it's there on other platforms), jack does everything ReWire does but better, IMO, and transport sync is apparently in the works for windows too, as is 64bit support (by the Jack developers, that is).

FWIW I too could never get into ReWire. The whole 'start the apps in the right order'-thing, 'which app supports master' and 'which doesn't support slave', the odd error message forcing you to backtrack to start again etc., it all just seems so late-90s in it's klunky usability and couldn't be farther from a 'virtual patchbay', whereas Jack is precisely that. Run anything in any order and route anything anywhere between ASIO-enabled applications.

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Mon May 06, 2013 2:21 pm

wasi wrote: it all just seems so late-90s in it's klunky usability and couldn't be farther from a 'virtual patchbay', whereas Jack is precisely that.

The reason they decided against Rewire has more to with licensing AND functionality, though I would bet it swing's more to the licensing side in the decision.

I can never get the Jack server to set up correctly do to it's convoluted structure on windows and my "so 90's" mentality expecting everything to work on windows with little or no fuss, I guess it's because it's due to the up to date Linux structure as it's the in thing. I despise Linux with it's "build the Kernel matrix mentality" that to me seems "so 80's"(you guessed I'm a Linux hater til my dying day and managed to bring the Linux versus Windows debate into the discussion in an unrelated thread, your welcome).

I would rather have something that I know work's for me(Rewire)as well as necessary than going the Jack route.

wasi · Post by **wasi** » Mon May 06, 2013 3:21 pm

CTStump wrote:
wasi wrote: it all just seems so late-90s in it's klunky usability and couldn't be farther from a 'virtual patchbay', whereas Jack is precisely that.
I can never get the Jack server to set up correctly do to it's convoluted structure on windows and my "so 90's" mentality expecting everything to work on windows with little or no fuss, I guess it's because it's due to the up to date Linux structure as it's the in thing.

Have you tried Jack 1.9.9? It's been a flawless double-click install on three different systems now for me. I was reluctant to try again after the "you may have to register jackrouter.dll manually" fiddlyness of 1.9.8, but 1.9.9 was as easy as pie.

And were you on Windows in the 90s? Because "little or no fuss" doesn't quite seem to describe what I remember. I think it's where I got the usability calluses that so help me with Linux nowadays.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Mon May 06, 2013 3:27 pm

wasi wrote:
robojam wrote:Surprised that ReWire isn't on the table for them. While it has its detractors, there's no denying that it's got a lot of users.
Yeah, it's a bit surprising. But I assume they chose Jack because it runs on all platforms. ReWire doesn't run on Linux, and for a 1.0 release they should rightfully focus on stuff that will run for all platforms. Besides, unless you need transport sync on windows it's there on other platforms), jack does everything ReWire does but better, IMO, and transport sync is apparently in the works for windows too, as is 64bit support (by the Jack developers, that is).

That might be the case, but it sounds like they're going for the technically better solution rather than the one with the larger userbase. That's why VHS survived and Betamax didn't (or other battle of technologies where the lesser one survived).

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Mon May 06, 2013 3:44 pm

the people wrote:ReWire

Hey guys!
Just to clear things up a little:

There's no ReWire planned for version 1.0 - just because for the initial release we focus on the functionality that is the same on all 3 platforms (... just the same with AudioUnit support).

JACK became really powerful over the time and supports all 3 operating systems we support, supports all apps that output audio (not only the ones that support ReWire!), is not a closed project and is in some regard technically more evolved than ReWire - so right now it is priority one for us.

For a lot of people this will already solve their need for ReWire and this gives all 3 operating systems inter-application functionality. If there's still major demand for ReWire after version 1.0 we will obviously be aware of that and prioritize it against other feature wishes and according to the result it will come sooner, or later ... again, just like AudioUnit (OSX), LV2 (Linux) support or other features, that are exclusive to one of the 3 operating systems.

I hope this helps a bit in understanding this decision as it is remarkably hard to decide which features are absolute necessary in a version 1.0 and which not.

Cheers,
Dom

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:23 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:
the people wrote:ReWire
Hey guys!
Just to clear things up a little:

There's no ReWire planned for version 1.0 - just because for the initial release we focus on the functionality that is the same on all 3 platforms (... just the same with AudioUnit support).

JACK became really powerful over the time and supports all 3 operating systems we support, supports all apps that output audio (not only the ones that support ReWire!), is not a closed project and is in some regard technically more evolved than ReWire - so right now it is priority one for us.

For a lot of people this will already solve their need for ReWire and this gives all 3 operating systems inter-application functionality. If there's still major demand for ReWire after version 1.0 we will obviously be aware of that and prioritize it against other feature wishes and according to the result it will come sooner, or later ... again, just like AudioUnit (OSX), LV2 (Linux) support or other features, that are exclusive to one of the 3 operating systems.

I hope this helps a bit in understanding this decision as it is remarkably hard to decide which features are absolute necessary in a version 1.0 and which not.

Cheers,
Dom

Thank's for taking the time to answer this question, I would most likely wait to see if Rewire becomes available(being the ancient hold out that I am) and your product matures a version to make a decision on a purchase at this time.

As you haven't released yet I will elect a wait and see position for now.

pc999 · Post by **pc999** » Tue May 07, 2013 2:04 pm

Thanks for the feedback.

I Must say the more open the platform and the tech behind it, the better for the user, and for the company that is one form of insurance that they wont get "$#!"over.

BTW anyone knows if Rewire have licensing cost?

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Tue May 07, 2013 2:13 pm

wasi wrote:Have you tried Jack 1.9.9? It's been a flawless double-click install on three different systems now for me. I was reluctant to try again after the "you may have to register jackrouter.dll manually" fiddlyness of 1.9.8, but 1.9.9 was as easy as pie.

And were you on Windows in the 90s? Because "little or no fuss" doesn't quite seem to describe what I remember. I think it's where I got the usability calluses that so help me with Linux nowadays.

I took your advice and loaded 1.9.9. What a convoluted nerdish affair THAT was, How do they expect ANYONE who doesn't understand their systems to install and use jack for ASIO drivers to set THAT up. I maen REALLy... really. It took me searching the interwebs and running the console over and over just to find the NAME of the card drivers durn it.

I can't believe that musicianship has come to this, where it is necessary to be a nerd to setup a streaming audio app, in WINDOWS, come on.

I still can't figure out how to setup the MIDI ports, probably take all day to figure that out.

Honestly, anyone who think's the Linux way of doing things is great should stick to gaming or Trekky Conventions.

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Tue May 07, 2013 2:26 pm

pc999 wrote:BTW anyone knows if Rewire have licensing cost?

Here is a link to the Developers page:

http://www.propellerheads.se/developer/rewire.php

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