Digital Performer for Windows finally released! with demo!

[koolkeys]

Theo, just as an FYI, you can still deal with MIDI as individual "blocks" in the track view. It snaps to the measure by default, but holding shift or ctrl, etc. can alter the behavior.

It may not be as flexible as editing them in the sequence editor, but just letting you know.

Brent

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[koolkeys]

Yeah, it's not really a good replacement for the traditional MIDI clips in most hosts, but in case you do need to rearrange a bit, it's there.

DP takes some getting used to. A LOT of functionality is there, especially if you do film scoring, on-stage production, etc. But it's different, no doubt about it. Not as smooth to work with in places.

What I do like is that when designing their new interface, they didn't alienate the laptop user. Hosts like Sonar X1 and X2 and others seem to be making interfaces that don't work well on a smaller laptop. But DP8 lets me display plenty of info on the screen since elements aren't oversized.

I have used DP before quite a bit, and even I am having to get used to the workflow again. But I'm slowly discovering where things are.

I don't think I could really switch to this as my main composition host. Studio One has that spot pretty much reserved for the foreseeable future. Same for most other production tasks.

But DP interests me because of the film stuff, and it's a pretty decent mixing environment and has a decent notation element to it. So we'll see. I would have to save money to buy it, so I definitely don't need to worry about making a snap decision!

Brent

[Mario-C.]

FYI.
You CAN mute midi notes when you open the track you want to edit in the drum edit window, not as slick as muting within a piano roll editor but you can still do it.

[machinesworking]

No wonder Logic, Cubase and PT are three top dogs in the Pro World.

It has more to do with Logic and Cubase coming to OSX quicker than anything else. MOTU resisted VST and went with MAS (their own version of VST AU AAX etc.) for years as well, then dropped it in favor of AU once they got to OSX.

You probably don;t know but for years Logic was seen as the most convoluted incomprehensible DAW. DP is weird no doubt, but I wouldn't write it off because Logic has a key command to get out of full screen??

The Tracks Overview is the main window, it's tempting coming from Logic to look at the Sequence edit tab and try to get an overview off of it, but like the full name says it's not the overview window. Like Logic has essentially two mixing windows (the Environment and the Mixer), DP has two windows for the arrangement, the Tracks Overview and Sequence Editor. Data like MIDI blocks are easily grabbed in theTracks window.

Lol at the sub-windows comment, Logic has some crazy sub-windows that you only know once you get the hang of the program as well. I hate the time stretch in Logic as well, at this point I have Machfive 3 with the IRCAM algorithms and Melodyne so I wouldn't bother with Live, Logic or DPs.


Some of the information in the windows is irrelevant when starting out. Mostly get the hang of messing around with VI's so it doesn't throw you, and thinking about what way you would like to build a song. Like I said DP is open ended there. A couple methods I use: Start with a main part in a single sequence/chunk, putting the VI's in a V-Rack, then once I'm trying different arrangements I start dragging sections to the Chunks window, they then become separate chunks with only the verse, chorus etc. in them. <--- this is another reason for markers, because markers allow you to instantly choose a section of the arrangement with a double click on the header that you can then perform various functions on.

^^^ That sort of ability to take a theme and make variations on it quickly then have them instantly available is why it's still widely used in the film industry even with the "pro" attacks of Nuendo, Pro Tools and Apple Logic etc.


Ill be honest, my guess is you'll probably hate it, I tried to like Studio One when I got on the beta team, but I hated it. I liked Logic between 4 and 7 but at 8 I was over it, too many dumbed down parts for noobs. Plus I never cared for Apple Loops, and the clunky implementation of it. Sure it saves some headache when you first learn it, but it creates headaches when you know it well.

Seriously, give me a headache at first over one when you realize a program you invested time into has limitations that you cannot fix with a VST or AU.

[MrDuke]

The timestretch quality is very poor also.. i am wondering if there are different algorithms or only the default?

I was wondering about this also. I had an old Akai loop (in Wav) that I tried to stretch to the beat of a song (different tempo), but the end result isn't smooth at all - there are clearly audible "glitches". (and note: it's not because they vary wildly in tempo, they don't)

(by the way, how do you "snap" audio to a grid in Sequence mode, if you're stretching something?)

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[machinesworking]

Mostly I didn't like the things Studio One was imitating about Live. Hate is a little strong, but it bothered me that Studio One was doing the same (IMO) mistakes that Ableton are doing with Live in terms of missing out on features IMO because they don't want the tech support requests. Also this was the beta, so I would assume things are better now. Like not being able to use the MIDI editor as a separate window etc.

If you think about it, what pre-render is doing is saving to RAM/disk a quick snapshot of the track, as soon as you do anything to the track you effectively put it out of pre-render mode, I don't think it would save much CPU to pre-render every possible combination of a track!

It effectively does the same thing to CPU use that Logic does with it's track arming, only tracks that are armed are essentially 'live' so the rest can be tightly controlled. The downside to this is the infamous overload message in Logic. I kinda prefer DP eventually getting boggy and glitching to that but neither are fun. In tests on my system with DP8 and Logic 8 they were neck and neck which is pretty cool compared to the OSX pigs that are Live, Cubase, and Reaper.

One thing, DP's beat detection for it's stretching algorithm is tempo dependent like Live, so it's best to get the tempos etc. all taken care of before trying to stretch audio. It sounds like crap if everything isn't lined up properly. Like I said though, having Live, Melodyne and Machfive I don't need DP to do that stuff. I'm still on Logic 8 so 'Flex' isn't really there, it's all Apple loops etc. I'm not upgrading Logic until Logic X comes out, if it seems like it's worth it. I'm pretty comfortable with my Live and DP8 workflow so honestly it's only possibly Bitwig that may get my attention, if they offer better live performance tools than Live does.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[machinesworking]

Oh lol, logic 8 time stretch is absolutely abysmal. No wonder! LOL!!! all good , if you ever try flex you will see in the host gorgeous stretch:)

You've outed yourself as a bit of a DP expert mate, so there;s probably some flak (as in questions galore) coming your way

Of course, scratch mine and i'll scratch.. er.. yours?

Seriously, if i get stuck, would appreciate any help, and if i can ever replay the favour let me know

Not a total expert, but I'm getting there. BTW the pitch shifting for vocals etc. DP does is another story, quite decent. I just got Melodyne for audio mangling really, basic pitch correction DP does with no problems.

Point me to cheap copies of Altiverb and Alchemy and all questions that I can answer I will. <--- although I think I'm going to wait on Alchemy as they're going to release a new version whenever I pick up a used copy.

Missed a promotion at AudioDeluxe where altiverb was $425 by a day or two.... hoping it comes up in the marketplace here...

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[Mario-C.]

If by snap you mean grid values you can go way beyond 1/32

[Johnny!]

no offence guys, but making music is not rocket science nowadays. you fire up your daw, add an instrument/vsti (which usually create a midi track automatically, if not - u create one), go to midi editor/piano roll and draw some notes, or you just fire up recording and play your notes on your previously selected and set up midi controller. then you add some fx, record some vocals or whatever, or you even just forget the vsti part and just set your tracks up for recording and do record your mates playing real instruments. then you do some arrangement modifications, which usually involves moving around some kind of "blocks".

it's that simple.
really.
and it's the software that made this process possible to be so simple.

and now we got DP8, where everything is upside down, hard to configure and far from being fun which is the most important part of music making if you ask me. fun. and all i can see in those few enthusiastic posts is that it's deep deep deeeep deeeeeeeeeep. ohrly? so what? if I wanted to go deep, i'd hire myself as a miner.

seriously, I cant see any arguments in favor of DP8 interface and workflow other than "it's good for film scoring" (yeah? and how many of kvr'ers are going to do some hollywood scoring?), "it's deep" (so is Logic, Live, Cubase and yet they are pleasant to use and pretty simple to configure), "you can have dozen songs in one project" - oh yes, that seems useful to load 10 songs simultaneously into a session of an app that crashes just by going into preferences. and even if it wasnt crashing, ask yourselves how many people will find that really useful.

it's 2013, software is really powerful these days, and most of the devs manage to make it really convenient to use. this looks like it's made by people who dont really make any music too often, with interface made with accountants and coders in mind. good luck with finding new users for $500 application with such a poor UX. except those few doing some hollywood scoring.

[cubic13]

Hi all,

Well, I was waiting for the demo to be availble since 6 months already and jumped on it to see how it would behave with my setup.

A horror show...

1) the activation window doesn't take the '@' character when entering my e-mail address. I had to use the Windows characters table to paste it in the relevent field. Not a biggy, but well...

2) I created an empty project and, following the 'Getting started' guide, I went to the 'Studio/Bundles' menu command to configure my MIDI devices. I scratched my head a little, and ended up configuring all my MIDI devices as following in the grid, as they are in Cubase :

My 2 controller devices (keyboard and pads)
- VMK-188+ -> Port [EC00] Emulated In
- MPD-32 ---> Port 2 [EC00] Emulated In
Then my 3 external synth modules :
- TX-802 ---> Port [EC00] Emulated Out
- D-110 ----> Port [EC00] Emulated Out
- 05R/W ----> Port [EC00] Emulated Out

Result : no MIDI activity after attempting to create a MIDI track with the 'Output' column set to TX-802, and my 3 external instruments are labelled with a '(missing)' statement.

3) I tried, still following the 'Getting started' manual, to set my interface with 'Setup/Configure audio system/Configure hardware driver'. I choosed 'E-Mu ASIO', as in Cubase. Result : every 3 seconds, I get this 'Emergency stop' window message :

The audio hardware changed while MAS was starting up
(MotuAudioSystem Mas [59:0])

[help] [HW Setup] [MIDI Only] [Continue]

No matter what I try ('Continue', 'HW setup'), the only way to go through it is to choose 'Windows Audio' which means that the ASIO driver for my E-Mu is unusable.

Think I'm going to prematurely end this experience. DP8 seems unusable for me at its present state...

-------------------

EDIT : OK, there is a little progress. I finally managed to get my external synths working, by choosing the 'Port [EC00] Emulated' with the relevent MIDI channel, instead of using one of the 3 external synths that I defined above. Going to delete these, as they seem useless as I defined them. More to follow, I guess...