The Best Drum Sample Library!

[Tubeman]

Why use 24 bit samples at all?

there isn't any difference between 24-bit and 16-bit samples (other than the noise floor), so unless you're doing severe processing and need additional headroom, there is no point to even use 24-bit samples at all. simple physics (or, rather, digital audio) increasing bit depth only lowers the noise floor (e.g. expands dynamic range downwards and further into inaudibility), it doesn't introduce anything else. there isn't any additional "magic" in 24-bit samples. they're exactly the same.

Can you hear the difference in a mix?

[Burillo]

Can you hear the difference in a mix?

i can't. and you can't. because there isn't any. this is a fact. the difference is only in the headroom (i.e. noise floor). if you're doing heavy processing that raises the noise floor considerably (to the point that it becomes louder than -40 or so dB, if we're talking "in the (sufficiently busy) mix") - you'll hear a difference (and so will i), but only in the increased noise levels. otherwise samples are exactly the same. there is no difference in frequency content or otherwise.

disagree, or think that you hear something? go learn some theory. i may not be a drummer or a physics major but i happen to be quite well versed in all things digital. i already mentioned - the fact that you "hear" something doesn't necessarily mean it's there. in this case, bar the heavy processing case, it certainly isn't.

I have nothing to avoid. There is nothing new for me in your posts to understand. I still hear a difference, if you can't hear I can't help you. What do you want me to say? Not everyone has equal hearing. Many people can't hear anything over 10k. Maybe you just have to accept that and not blame everything on magic or start picking on others because they have better hearing...

yes, but some things are beyond *any* human's threshold. have you done blind testing? if not, there's nothing to talk about.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I'm more than happy to post three tracks from totally separate projects where on one the drum kit is played by a human and multi mic'd/tracked, one where the drum tracks programmed use 24-Bit samples and the other when poor me only had 16-Bit samples.

You'll be able to point out which is which no problems right Tubeman? Piece of cake yeah? Agreed you might not like the tracks but it is so easy to tell that wouldn't cause any problems for ear's as mighty as your pair are (Bonus points if you point out where real and indeed many cases all-valve guitar amplification and bass amplification has been used and of course where digital sims and ITB sims have been used).

If you are game then just say so and prove how totally next level you are those inferior fools including myself front of the line!

[pljones]

I have nothing to avoid.

Yet you continue to do so. You are therefore either a liar or trying to fool yourself.

There is nothing new for me in your posts to understand. I still hear a difference,

And here it falls apart. You clearly aren't even reading what's been written if you think this is what I asked.

Maybe have another go if you're not too lazy or rude.

[jancivil]

Yes I think you jumped leaps away with talking about classical guitars and finger picking which is a totally different playing style than electric guitar with plectrum. The down/upstroke really only matter with distorted mutes so nothing to do with classical guitar. Listen to 'Master of Puppets' by Metallica to get the idea. I think it would be better if you go to Ultimate Metal forum and ask these things there if you want to learn about different playing styles. I can't really be bothered with this. Don't be angry.

"Don't be angry" is the resort of a troll that has no real argument on points and is a sign of a lost argument.

You want L v. R and up v. down strokes with a plectrum to be a necessary difference. I wasn't interested in guitar here until you went there and I think it does the opposite of prove your point.
You're avoiding the points. index v. middle finger, up v. down, L v. R: the point is one strives for consistency. Is there a difference physically*? You have not shown there is. If the point is to get a radically different tone with your downstroke than your upstroke, you do that. I think that is an outlier, that is outside the point completely in any case. The point to alternate picking is the gain in facility, just the same as i/m. Just the same as L/R. The very same quick run by John McLaughlin has to sound different, a 'totally different approach' than Paco de Lucia? It isn't, it just is not what happens. You're tossing shit in to try and make what is clear and true difficult to follow. "totally different playing style" is completely a different consideration. *Objectively, a string is being plucked with a certain amount of energy. I think a run should probably be executed evenly so a different tone is either deliberate, in service of effect or expression (not relevant to my point), or it is a technical problem.

You may even believe you can tell us on a record exactly which the guitarist is doing (It's obvious I am talking about playing single lines. So this style-bound particular metal technique is a smokescreen in your avoidance of the actual point.). I would love to bet you money on this kind of thing, have you blind tested. On any of it.

So it occurs to me, and to other people here, that you have a belief about yourself (that is probably overconfident). You seem invested in showing that to us. What you're showing is ignorance and that you aren't really dealing with people's points.

[jancivil]

Can you spot 16 bit samples in a mix versus 24 bit samples?

Once more you (a) fail to reply to the point and (b) try smoke and mirrors to change the subject.

That is just your opinion. My responses have been sufficient enough several pages ago and I don't want to repeat the same things over and over. I take your answer as you can't hear the difference. Why use 24 bit samples at all? This is important comparison for putting things in context.

Evidently you have a misconception as to why we do use the higher bit rate, as Burrillo points out. You shouldn't talk technical, right, because you're not so much competent to do so. Again, the exercise is you telling us about your superior hearing. No one is impressed, dude.

[Tubeman]

i can't. and you can't. because there isn't any. this is a fact. the difference is only in the headroom (i.e. noise floor). if you're doing heavy processing that raises the noise floor considerably (to the point that it becomes louder than -40 or so dB, if we're talking "in the (sufficiently busy) mix") - you'll hear a difference (and so will i), but only in the increased noise levels. otherwise samples are exactly the same. there is no difference in frequency content or otherwise.

You've misunderstood. Nowhere I said there is a difference or that I can hear it. If this is still all too cryptic like it seems to be to the couple of the posters above, why do you use 24 bit samples if you can't hear a difference? Thank you for proving my point. For a reminder, you all said there's no point using more detailed drums samples because you can't hear a difference.

[Tubeman]

Evidently you have a misconception as to why we do use the higher bit rate, as Burrillo points out. You shouldn't talk technical, right, because you're not so much competent to do so. Again, the exercise is you telling us about your superior hearing. No one is impressed, dude.

Actually, it's called bit depth. Confusing it with bit rate is the common mistake for people who saw the 'bit' word the first time when they were listening mp3s.

[Tubeman]

"Don't be angry" is the resort of a troll that has no real argument on points and is a sign of a lost argument...snip useless rambling snip...So it occurs to me, and to other people here, that you have a belief about yourself (that is probably overconfident). You seem invested in showing that to us. What you're showing is ignorance and that you aren't really dealing with people's points.

If you can't hear it don't assume no one else can't either. I have no need to argue what I hear. The only one losing here is you because of your narrow view.

Listen, I have no interest in showing anything to you. I did not start this "argument". Someone quoted my post and tried to tell me what I can and cannot hear. I can't accept bullshit like that.

[Tubeman]

Yet you continue to do so. You are therefore either a liar or trying to fool yourself. And here it falls apart. You clearly aren't even reading what's been written if you think this is what I asked.

Maybe have another go if you're not too lazy or rude.

It's ironic you call me rude after calling me liar first. Do you think I'm here to answer your ten questions? Your posts are not worth reading for intelligent people.

[Burillo]

You've misunderstood. Nowhere I said there is a difference or that I can hear it.

so, do you hear it, or not? from your next quote:

If this is still all too cryptic like it seems to be to the couple of the posters above, why do you use 24 bit samples if you can't hear a difference? Thank you for proving my point.

it seems like you don't hear any difference yourself but prefer to use more "detailed" samples anyway? is that the point you are making? or it's that you really do hear a difference (when in fact there isn't any - this is not my opinion, this is a fact - the samples will null)?

or perhaps you're saying that using 24-bit samples is better because "some people hear the difference" even if you don't? well, guess what - the only people that *will* hear the difference are imagining things and/or are lying either to you or to themselves. there is no difference to hear. how about different DAWs, do they sound different? how about 32-bit vs 64-bit processing?

For a reminder, you all said there's no point using more detailed drums samples because you can't hear a difference.

i said what was the point of using 24-bit samples. increased processing headroom. there is no difference to hear, but headroom isn't about the "difference", it's about noise floor i.e. using 24-bit samples isn't about hearing anything, it's a technical decision. if you hear a difference between unprocessed (or lightly processed) 16-bit and 24-bit samples, you're imagining things. especially if we're talking "spotting in a mix". no one can spot them, yourself included.

this (headroom being the difference) isn't the case with L/R hand samples though, so we're back to square one. so, have you done your blind test? it's a simple question. i was willing to concede to you that i couldn't hear any difference when you could, but now that you appear to be claiming to hear 16-bit vs. 24-bit samples in a mix (or claiming that other people might, which somehow makes it similar to our situation), i'm not so sure you really hear any difference in L/R hand samples either. it may be just more round-robins - which is fine, but isn't quite what you're arguing here.

or, in fact, this might be *exactly* what you're arguing here - trills and other fast repetitions certainly will sound better with more round-robins. that doesn't mean L/R samples are different enough to be considered different sounds as opposed to round-robin variations of the same sound. which is what i have been arguing all along, and which is what you're opposing. so please, do yourself a favor - do an ABX.

[xNiMiNx]

To get this thread back on track... how do these drums sound in bitwig?

[pljones]

For a reminder, you all said there's no point using more detailed drums samples because you can't hear a difference.

This is what I call lying. I did not say this anywhere.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Evidently you have a misconception as to why we do use the higher bit rate, as Burrillo points out. You shouldn't talk technical, right, because you're not so much competent to do so. Again, the exercise is you telling us about your superior hearing. No one is impressed, dude.

Actually, it's called bit depth. Confusing it with bit rate is the common mistake for people who saw the 'bit' word the first time when they were listening mp3s.

Well actually its not "bit rate" it is sample rate. Still you are clutching at straws correcting Jan there just to make yourself feel sweet. I'll bet my last pound coin that Jan knows the difference.
Your schooling Peter on drums was amusingly painful as I'm sure it was patronizing to Mr.Jones and suddenly backing off Burrillo exquisite as you had no more rope left, Speaking of which...Stop being a prick or if you have superior next level abilities going on then have at the simple exercise I offered and I welcome anyone else to put in tracks if you like for variety of style Tubeman can pick apart

We may record and process in 24-Bit but that is another matter, So Burrillo didn't prove any point for you, Unless I am really missing something?

Dean

[Dean Aka Nekro]

To get this thread back on track... how do these drums sound in bitwig?

Nearly as golden as Tubeman's hearing