KVR Audio

Hank the Knife · Post by **Hank the Knife** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:20 am

Then I probably misread something.
http://www.softube.com/index.php?id=download

eidenk · Post by **eidenk** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:34 am

MeldaProduction wrote:MeldaProduction Plugin Kernel - a few people argued, words like "malware" sometimes appeared... Well, this thing is the biggest thing in plugin history

Well it seems that Melda's written a big library which contains all the DSP and probably GUI stuff too that every plugin use.

Before the recent iteration of his plugins this library was statically linked in each plugin which made the bundles bigger and bigger as more plugs were added.

Now he has separated this library (the Plugin Kernel) and the plugins link dynamically to it which save disk space and bandwitdth for distribution.

Saying that this is a the biggest thing in plugin history is a big big stretch IMO as there is nothing revolutionary to using a library, it just allows him to code new plugins or add features to old ones faster I guess.

And it's IMO highly debatable whether this is good software design philosophy. For an end user it very much kills portability and if you don't buy into bundles, it certainly makes things much bigger then they could be.

Anyway I agree with the OP that installing tons of presets for plugins one doesn't install is very bad practice.

And saying that there are already tons of useless files in those directories anyway just doesn't make up for it, sorry...

eidenk · Post by **eidenk** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:51 am

Hank the Knife wrote:Then I probably misread something.
http://www.softube.com/index.php?id=download

I extracted this free plug (not sure if it's still free today) from the installer and it appears to work fine like that. I have no iLok drivers/software installed.

Hank the Knife · Post by **Hank the Knife** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:56 am

@eidenk
Thank's for the info. I'll try it.

webhamster · Post by **webhamster** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:20 am

Sorry to hear the rambling about Melda. Indeed a lot of plugin designers take all sorts of liberties. But Melda really build great plugins with a very small footprint.

Yes he is a bit eccentric at times, his user interface being a clear example. But they sound great, are rock solid and packed with features that are really useful. On top of that he communicates a lot here.

To me that is a fresh breath of air from many other developers who like to bend the truth in the name of marketing.

TheKid · Post by **TheKid** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:42 am

Looks like I need to save my old installer. I wonder why noone mentioned IK Multimedia with their custom shop crap. The installer for the plugins comes with quicktime, an installer for the custom shop, all plugins and presets.

braj · Post by **braj** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:05 am

TheKid wrote:Looks like I need to save my old installer. I wonder why noone mentioned IK Multimedia with their custom shop crap. The installer for the plugins comes with quicktime, an installer for the custom shop, all plugins and presets.

Yeah, I really don't like having t-racks modules I don't own forced upon my effects browser. I really hope they change that. At least store the plugs in an installer that will put them in your vst folder only when you purchase it. It is very annoying.

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:18 pm

eidenk wrote:
Hank the Knife wrote:Then I probably misread something.
http://www.softube.com/index.php?id=download
I extracted this free plug (not sure if it's still free today) from the installer and it appears to work fine like that. I have no iLok drivers/software installed.

Same experience here, works without iLok. But this is a tangent. It installs all their products (in demo mode) whether you want it to or not. Malicious? Nah. Slight PITA to remove? Yes. Just trying to put things into perspective. If folks are going to take jabs at Melda, then they should be declaring total war against Softube. Don't understand the inconsistency. IMHO it sounds like a case of bruised feelings.

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:22 pm

We gotta give Vojchek credit...he still has the Best and Most Complete
Plugins bundle out there. If one was stuck with Melda ONLY plugins
one could still finish everything. Yes i have the Total Bundle and things
like installing all Presets do not affect me, i can still understand
Teksoniks frustration. So far i have not a single complaint, i just wonder
why on Win 7 x64 after installation you have to confirm that it was
installed properly or not.

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:52 pm

BasariStudios wrote:We gotta give Vojchek credit...he still has the Best and Most Complete
Plugins bundle out there. If one was stuck with Melda ONLY plugins
one could still finish

That I think could apply even to his incredibly generous, high quality free bundle as well.

Hank the Knife · Post by **Hank the Knife** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:54 pm

Yes. Thanks for the free bundle

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:18 pm

Yes Melda does wonderful things. just because someone does something good, doesn't mean we shouldn't at least mention when they do something no so good. in this case throwing a bunch of files on a person's computer outside of what the person expects, is bad practise. if we did a survey which asked "do you expect files for plugins you do not own to be installed on your computer?" i am sure the answer would be skewed to "no". there will be varying rationale from people as to why. for some its just the idea of it, for others (like me) its because I do backups and the more files there are the longer it takes (just because the files are small doesn't account for the total overhead needed to back them up). but these points are not really relevant. it comes down to what the customer expects and industry best practises.

No matter. it appears many indie devs have clouded their judgement with the passion they have for their products. this will only come back to haunt them (case in point, one virtual synth dev who basically has to beg friends and family every month to pay their rent partly I am sure because they can't sell enough plugins due to trail of "destruction" they've left on the net, leading to lost sales).

People will read this and decide for themselves if its issue enough to ignore Melda.

In my case, I think its very annoying and its disappointing that Melda would ignore industry best practices and try and come up with such light rationale for it. but it's not going to impact my being an ongoing customer of their products. in other words, its easy enough to deal with. but it would be nice to be able to say only nice things about a dev rather than have these annoying impositions made along the way.

In the grand scheme of things, its not a big deal.

And on the topic of shared libraries across plugin, I think Waves does this too with their Wavesshell "technology". it also causes problems because there are more opportunities for file corruption or at least lack of sync between the files that point files to each other. how do I know? I had major issues with Waves because of this shell technology - the waves cache that points the shell to the plugins was not getting updated and causing all my waves plugins to stop working. i had to work with customer support over a month to solve this. if they just had each plugin discrete these things wouldn't have happened.

Synthetic Wav · Post by **Synthetic Wav** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:24 pm

microsoft and apple put lot of files into your computer, are you gonna stop using it? here it's not even weird files trying to access internet ect.. just some presets or stuff needed for the plugins , it s not about your own privacy.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:30 pm

Synthetic Wav wrote:microsoft and apple put lot of files into your computer, are you gonna stop using it? here it's not even weird files trying to access internet ect.. just some presets or stuff needed for the plugins , it s not about your own privacy.

We assume that the OS manufacturers are going to put files on our systems. that's part of the OS. we also assume that there will be numerous files put in places we have no idea about, again part of the OS.

I don't think we all agree that when installing a plugin, it will install all the files for all the plugins the dev sells. except melda. find me another example of a dev that installs all the files even if you only install one plugin. we have melda, softtube... who else. prove its in industry best practice first. otherwise it's not.

valsolim · Post by **valsolim** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:47 pm

plexuss wrote:Has anyone else found that the smaller the developer, and especially one-person-shops have worse interactions with their customers than larger plugin companies?

Actually, the opposite is often true! And Melda is a shining example of a one-person-shop which communicates very well. Sometimes I wonder how he can manage to develop and communicate so intensively at the same time. This whole thread is a product of a client who is obviously offended by the fact that Vojtech didn't agree with him.

Although I partially understand Teksonik's concerns, his outcry is not adequate at all.
The "kernel" approach has its drawbacks, plus many advantages. If you don't like it, you are welcome to use the older version which actually occupies more disk space. (Or, about the same space if you install a single plugin.)

Yes, the installation location of the "kernel" files is questionable, indeed. In my opinion, that's the whole problem.

Melda Products Install ALL Presets for ALL Plugins