Moog Model 15

[DayvanCowboy]

What i meant to say was, that in theory, the touchscreen will always be superior to mouse. It takes new devices like the iPad Pro, and an entire software ecosystem to make them practical.

Total nonsense, in fact it is the same total nonsense that people spout whenever a "New mouse replacement" comes along, yeah and guess which one is still around.

Well, Moog, arguably the leading brand in synthesis surely aren´t a fan of the mouse. I´m pretty sure they would have released a ton of plugins already, if they were, to capitalize on their legendary brand.

I´m a 33 year old IT-consultant by trade, i work with a mouse the whole day, and wouldn´t want anything else (yet). Except when it comes to music creation, where the touchscreen is so far superior.

If the touchscreen would have more success in general desktop applications, which i don´t see happening in the nearest future, we would already have had a revolution in the audio plugins. But without, there isn´t any ecosystem for developers to even get started.

With mobile computing power improving at a much faster rate than traditional PCs, great sounding iOS Apps like the Moog Model 15 App which is on par with the best sounding VSTs/AUs will be the future. The superior sound quality of e.g. u-he plugins compared to emulation based synthesis iOS Apps turned me off of iOS in the past, but this App is a gamechanger. I guess i´ll buy more iPads!

Another point worth mentioning is the price for the App. 30 bucks is a steal! As a plugin, it would be 200 bucks easily. I hope it works out for moog!

Patching is a lot of fun, and educational too. I´m loving the Delay they´ve built in, makes for a great Chorus-like effect. The iPad desktop mount i´ve ordered turned out to be shaky garbage. Need a better one!

[sirdavidabraham]

I have 5K iMac and 15 inch MacBook Retina both with almost every DAW and tons of VST plugins...and still prefer these days to make music on a 9.7inch iPad Pro --

despite iOS recording still being relatively immature, it just seems to make music production more accessible and organic

[DayvanCowboy]

I have 5K iMac and 15 inch MacBook Retina both with almost every DAW and tons of VST plugins...and still prefer these days to make music on a 9.7inch iPad Pro --

despite iOS recording still being relatively immature, it just seems to make music production more accessible and organic

Absolutely! It is the difference between something feeling like "work" a lot of the time, and something to explore and enjoy.

I never meant to derail the conversation about the awesome Moog Model 15 App into a general iOS viability one, but i feel the question: "why doesn´t company xxx release app yyy as a VST/AU" always comes up.

It is not the same thing. Moog gets it. You and me get it

I bought the iPad 2 back then when Garage Band was introduced for exactly that app, and had so much fun, especially a little later with Animoog which was 0.99 $ at the time. Due to very limited hardware and software capabilities, i moved on to Ableton and VSTs/AUs. My enthusiasm dwindled down, i thought iOS just can´t compete with sonically with u-he ACE and DIVA e.g.

Now that i got a new iPad for the Moog Model 15 App i remember why i fell in love with iOS in the first place!

[Cinebient]

I can accept that they want to make it a multi touch only app but why they are not making a windows 10 version? There are a lot good multi touch devices too these days it seems.
I looked and touched a few of those newer 2 in 1 hybrids and while i thought they are far away from an iPad multi-touch experience i begin to think about one of these devices.
The iPad and so is great for a lot things but iOS and bringing out smaller iPad Pros with half the RAM holding it back.
I really hope that some developers start to create some "really" multi touch music creation apps for windows 10 too with full screen size and all this stuff we know from iPad apps.
Then that virtual reality apps and hardware are going to get attraction maybe in the coming years and needing some higher specs and PC OS like windows i have the feeling that Apple might be behind the future with iOS, apps and app store. But i´m sure they pull out such hardware too in some years if the market wants.
The experience i had with iOS music creation was much better some years ago. IOS often makes 2 step forward and then 1 1/2 back...or even worse. Copy/paste got worse (years ago you could copy/paste more than one file at once with sonoma pasteboard f.e.). Audiobus sessions are useless since there is always an app or something in iOS which break it....which i had not with iOS 5, 6 and mostly 7. But apple force you and developers to update.
As much as i like the awesome apps i hope THIS is not the future.
Sorry, again a bit out of topic but it´s not all that great how it could/should be.
Using a stand alone or single app to record into a huge DAW and mangle it trough high quality FX is indeed great.
Moog Model 15 (and even better Animoog) trough Replika XT and B2 sounds awesome. For me (and that´s my personal meaning only) they are still a bit away in sound quality from ACE, Dune 2 and some others but it´s great what you van drive on a freaking smartphone!

[DayvanCowboy]

It is because the ecosystem is so fragmented. Screen sizes, aspect ratios, vastly different hardware specs makes it virtually impossible to deliver a comparable experience on Win 10. From an economic standpoint as well, it is not lucrative, ther are way too few devices around.

The classic Desktop Monitor with a touch screen never got any traction due to obvious ergonomic reasons. (Your arm falls off).

iOS is the best touch-platform for developers and musicians atm, and will be for quite some time. Credit to Apple, that they saw the potential early, and developed the necessary APIs like CoreSound early on.

Theoretically, there should be much better systems than iPads around by now, with much larger screens for the studio use, and unlimited computing power (at least for audio apps), with dedicated DSPs like the Ultimate Audio Cards.

I would dream of something like a modular version of the microsoft Surface Table (not the tablet, the 10.000 bucks thing that no one bought).

It just wont happen in the next five years, due to simple economic reasons, the lack of multi touch applications outside the music world.

VR has some interesting potential for music production, but would need a gigantic effort in software development, something that current music companies simply cannot do.

[Daags]

I think the reason Moog are so far only developing on iOS is probably related to piracy more than any philosophical interface choices.

[Chopper]

I think the reason Moog are so far only developing on iOS is probably related to piracy more than any philosophical interface choices.

THIS.

[Timfonie]

How does compares to Monark?

Well, Monark is modelled after the Minimoog.
Moog Model 15 however is a different machine. Exactly how it is different I leave to the real experts

[DayvanCowboy]

Its not like there is no piracy on iOS via Jailbreak?

If you look at Moogs History, listen to the great interview with the lead developer on Sonictalk you do get a picture what they are about.

Animoog is the best example, it made a unique use of the touchscreen, the app wouldnt be the same on pc/mac.

It still would have been possible to port it, people were asking for it they could have charged 150 and make a profit.

They're just very protective of their brand, as they should be.

[Cinebient]

Its not like there is no piracy on iOS via Jailbreak?

If you look at Moogs History, listen to the great interview with the lead developer on Sonictalk you do get a picture what they are about.

Animoog is the best example, it made a unique use of the touchscreen, the app wouldnt be the same on pc/mac.

It still would have been possible to port it, people were asking for it they could have charged 150 and make a profit.

They're just very protective of their brand, as they should be.

True.
The biggest problem on iOS is that it's nearly impossible to sell pro software for pro prices, demo them and/or resell them if you get rid of it some day.
At the moment it's a very different market.
No one knows where it will go in a few years.
Maybe prices will raise. Fragmentation rise up.
I could live with iOS if Apple would make a hybrid device which runs iOS and OSX (no reason to merge them together). Of course they want to sell me 2 devices to get the best of both worlds.
Animoog is indeed still THE thing for a touch device. Only the Roli Noise app is like Animoog on drugs and goes much further with expressive control.
Sadly Roli limited it as nearly useless without a second device to record the audio.
At the end it's all about what the users want and where developers put work into.
I think multi-touch and beyond will be a big part of the future (but not THE future maybe)...but iOS in the current state is still just a blown smartphone OS.
The iPad Pro should be more seperated and should get even an own store.....
At the moment every OS or device seems to missing something
I'm interested to see what the second generation of iPad Pro 12.9" will bring. I will buy it or another hybrid at the end of the year.

[Cinebient]

I got my iPhone 6S plus repaired and wanted to record some Model 15 godness into Logic via my Seaboard Rise but connecting it via bluetooth is not working nice (which i also had before i broke my Phone). I have no adapter (and will not buy one) for the lightning port.
It mostly works but especially the polyphonic pitchbend/slide doesn´t work. It sounds much better when i play it on the iPhone screen itself. It works good with the Roli Noise app and also some other apps i tryed. So it must be something in the app.
Anyone with a Seaboard tryed it? Would be awesome to get that to work since it´s more fun to play with tactile feedback.

[Cinebient]

After some time Model 15 is one of my favourite apps but there is a thing with the polyphonic i don't have with any other synth.
Everytime i hit a new note the release from the previous is cut off, even in poly mode.
When i play 2-3 notes at the same time i can make polyphonic aftertouch etc. but when i release them and hit a new the release of them will be cut off.
Is there a setting for this or is it more of a semi-polyphon thing.
Why should the release phase cut off when i'm not using more than 4 notes?
Another question would be....are there plug-in synths which can do this too. When using a lot delay or massive patches it sounds much better this way because the sound stays clear and don't get too muddy, even when playing chords inbetween a mono line.
Is this a unique feature (and limitation at the same time) of this app?

[pdxindy]

I have 5K iMac and 15 inch MacBook Retina both with almost every DAW and tons of VST plugins...and still prefer these days to make music on a 9.7inch iPad Pro --

despite iOS recording still being relatively immature, it just seems to make music production more accessible and organic

I detest my iPad Pro and how hard it is to use with my laptop for music stuff. The iOS universe sucks for working outside itself and there is just no way I am going to replace all my favorite music gear to use an under-powered and under-developed platform. It is first and foremost a consumer device and that negatively influences it far too much.

I bought my iPad Pro because it makes a fine graphics tablet and I am happy with it for that. I also have the iOS app Procreate but I much prefer painting on my Mac software... such as Affinity Photo. It is just better when you want a full featured tool you can swiftly shape to your own needs.

iOS can be fun, but for real work that fun easily turns to frustration with all the limitations of the platform.

[Jace-BeOS]

I have 5K iMac and 15 inch MacBook Retina both with almost every DAW and tons of VST plugins...and still prefer these days to make music on a 9.7inch iPad Pro --

despite iOS recording still being relatively immature, it just seems to make music production more accessible and organic

I detest my iPad Pro and how hard it is to use with my laptop for music stuff. The iOS universe sucks for working outside itself and there is just no way I am going to replace all my favorite music gear to use an under-powered and under-developed platform. It is first and foremost a consumer device and that negatively influences it far too much.

I bought my iPad Pro because it makes a fine graphics tablet and I am happy with it for that. I also have the iOS app Procreate but I much prefer painting on my Mac software... such as Affinity Photo. It is just better when you want a full featured tool you can swiftly shape to your own needs.

iOS can be fun, but for real work that fun easily turns to frustration with all the limitations of the platform.

I think your expectations might have been poorly aligned with what an iOS device does. I knew what I was getting myself into (I was thinking from day one that "this is not a laptop replacement"), and I still experience a need to accommodate its differentness.

You may be happy to hear that Affinity is being ported to iOS. Your iPad Pro will likely benefit from that once it comes out. http://petapixel.com/2016/06/14/sneak-p ... hoto-ipad/ The company's vector app is also being ported, but I suspect the photo app will come first, if both ever arrive on iOS.

I've not been too impressed with the handling of stylus pressure with the Apple Pencil so far in any apps, so I've not found myself doing much with it (it's another reason I need to buy Moog Model 15, to justify my $100 pencil). Pressure and tilt are implemented so inconsistently between apps (and strokes). Messing with the settings for pressure curves or the individual tool settings in apps like Procreate never leave me feeling like the action is remotely natural. There are plenty of artists doing fantastic work on iPads, with and without the Pencil, so maybe it's just me. I never got comfortable using a stylus for drawing/painting; only retouching/modifying photos ((I've owned Wacoms for years and I'd never go without one for editing). I still haven't tried Astropad yet, but it's on my list of things to try.

I'm finding my iPad Pro to be a music tool far more than an art tool. Maybe when apps are updated for camera RAW support... But there's just not enough storage or RAM for those anyway.

As for integrating iOS devices with your computer... I don't even try to. I think of mine like an external hardware instrument without MIDI support. Like any non-MIDI instrument, or non-electronic instrument, it's a performance device that I record the output from. I suck at live performance, so this is an exercise in stretching my comfort zone. For example: adding "live" cello to a project via FingerFiddle means getting my performance acceptable enough to record it onto a Logic audio track (and maybe still adjust my timing with FlexTime afterward, ha ha).

Thinking of it as an integrated plugin isn't where my mind is at with my iPad Pro. Hell, even the Virus TI, marketed as an integrated device, doesn't really work as an actual integrated device (especially if you are using other MIDI devices on the same system; I've found that MIDI synch will cause major stability issues with the Virus and Access is not fond of discussing the use of their device alongside ANYTHING else). However, there ARE two apps out there (if you have a Mac) for integrating the MIDI/audio somewhat between iOS device and a Mac DAW:

studiomux by AppBC
https://appsto.re/us/vthN5.i

musicIO: Audio and MIDI over USB by Power Trio
https://appsto.re/us/iLaL5.i

I've not tried either because my Mac is still mostly on Snow Leopard (which isn't supported by the host app for either product). Plus, iOS 9.x and Mac OS El Capitan and newer support built-in inter-device audio (but not inter-device MIDI!). I'd like to see Logic itself offer some kind of integration features, but it barely gets development attention these days.

When I create things in Korg Gadget, I port them to Logic by way of exporting individual tracks as MIDI and audio, moving them via Dropbox or iTunes, and importing them into Logic. It's not an easy or quick porting process, since I don't use Ableton Live (Gadget actually exports Ableton Live project files). But Gadget isn't meant to be a DAW. To me, it's just an alternative way to start things that I wouldn't have made in Logic, using some unique synths that are very fun right off the bat without lots of programming. Making fun music with just the iPad connected to an amp in my living room is super convenient and it also sometimes results in final product. I'm already satisfied with that result (I need as much convenience as I can get, so a few songs made on my iPad, a few songs woth of cello tracks provided by FingerFiddle, and a lot of Internet/word processing being done without my MacBook... I'm content with my iPad purchase).

I expect I would use Moog Model 15 and Animoog the same way (haven't bought them yet, but they're on my wish list). I will likely be using their MIDI capabilities to some extent for controller input, as I do occasionally with Gadget. Still, most of what I've created thus far on my iPad has just used the iOS device and nothing else plugged in. The touch interface can be very fun and immediate and the Animoog keyboard is reportedly very well thought out for this. Treating the iPad as a unique solo music performance device makes sense for many reasons. Check out what other people are doing with live performance and how they're using their iOS devices: http://discchord.com/

Thinking of an iOS device the same way we think of traditional computers is not the way to go, IMO. That just leads to frustration and disappointment. It's a different paradigm and requires different workflows. The walls of the garden make sense from a consumer standpoint and I support them there. We are watching the content creation app makers slowly figure out what Apple hasn't figured out in terms of how to exchange content between iOS devices and other computers (many apps have integrated Drobox support). Sometimes Apple assists (iCloud Drive is clearly a concession, but it's not nearly as sensible as mounting the iOS device as a drive in Finder), but content creators aren't their target market. I don't think they even have a target market any more.

[bungle]

Well, Moog, arguably the leading brand in synthesis surely aren´t a fan of the mouse. I´m pretty sure they would have released a ton of plugins already, if they were, to capitalize on their legendary brand.

Only just saw this hahaha, are you actually suggesting that Moog don't release plugins because they don't like the mouse hahaha