KVR Audio

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:08 pm

logburner wrote: So you don't like the Wavesfactory one either? Have you listened to all the demos incl Rachmaninov and Blue In Green? I don't know but those who prioritise the responsiveness with fast passages tend to choose Pianoteq over anything.

I didn't found any Rachmaninoff. Can you send me a link to it? Regarding Pianoteq, yes, I think that's one of the possible futures for the virtual piano. I still didn't get it, but I am always looking for a good deal. Another future is the hybrid approach, as followed by George Yohng in True Pianos. I don't know why there aren't more developers following this hybrid approach. George is really a great developer.

logburner · Post by **logburner** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:09 pm

P.S. to fmr

You should investigate a little further regards to Imperfect Samples pianos. Their range of piano have different version from Basic to Extreme, and Basic version has less layers and mic perspective. Listen to some demos at Imperfect Samples website to see if you think their pianos are that poor.

logburner · Post by **logburner** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:11 pm

https://soundcloud.com/wavesfactory/sets/mercury

For Mercury demos. Rachmaninoff is the 5th one.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:25 pm

logburner wrote:https://soundcloud.com/wavesfactory/sets/mercury

For Mercury demos. Rachmaninoff is the 5th one.

Hmm... Not bad, but it lacks body, especially in the fortissimo par in the end. I am working on a MIDI rendition of the same piece, using True Pianos and The Grandeur as references (I don't understand why that one is not mentioned more. It has a great body and warmness, yet is is very dynamic). Maybe I'll post a link when I consider the piece finished. I am working at the tempos and the expression now, and this is something very time consuming. But I can say to you, based on what I listened, that True Pianos can do a much better job in this piece, IMO.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:31 pm

fmr wrote:
logburner wrote:https://soundcloud.com/wavesfactory/sets/mercury

For Mercury demos. Rachmaninoff is the 5th one.
Hmm... Not bad, but it lacks body, especially in the fortissimo par in the end. I am working on a MIDI rendition of the same piece, using True Pianos and The Grandeur as references (I don't understand why that one is not mentioned more. It has a great body and warmness, yet is is very dynamic). Maybe I'll post a link when I consider the piece finished. I am working at the tempos and the expression now, and this is something very time consuming. But I can say to you, based on what I listened, that True Pianos can do a much better job in this piece, IMO.

I also got both TruePianos and The Grandeur here and also Arturia Piano V (with my own preset for it). Will try to add those to my comprison ASAP and maybe also teh Fazioli that is a bit tweaked using an EQ (so far it was a raw sound).

acrtually i had owned TruPIanos long time, bedfore most of teh sample libraries thet i own now (including the NI pianos from Komplete 10, XLN Studio Grand and Imperfect Sampels Fazioli).

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:35 pm

I guess i found a reason why the Imperfect Samples Fazioli has a different velocity response and it is more easy to play more "delicate" tracks with it.

While having a look in the Kontakt instruments of teh Fazioli and a few others i foudn that most libraries seem to use an equeal distrubution of the layers along the velocity range (e.g. velocity 1 to 9 for layer 1, 10 to 18 for layer 2 etc.) in the Imperfect Samples Fazioli Basic (8 layers) it seems to be distrubute differntly.
Here are the velocity range values: Layer 1: 1-31, layer 2: 32-55, layer 3: 56-67, layer 4: 68-77, layer 5: 78-89, layer 6: 91-102, layer 7: 103-113, layer 8: 114-127

Matt from Imperfect Samples semed to have mentioned that he wanted to apply a more "human" playing style which seems to be representing in the velocity layer distrubution. Anyway with teh bigger versions of the library this could differ a bit also as those contain more layers.

I will soon try to create a nki file of the IS Fazioli that has equally distrubuted velocity. BTW while there is no vlocity curve at the GUI ther si one if you use teh edit button for teh Kontakt instrument.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:44 pm

Ingonator wrote:
fmr wrote:
logburner wrote:https://soundcloud.com/wavesfactory/sets/mercury

For Mercury demos. Rachmaninoff is the 5th one.
Hmm... Not bad, but it lacks body, especially in the fortissimo par in the end. I am working on a MIDI rendition of the same piece, using True Pianos and The Grandeur as references (I don't understand why that one is not mentioned more. It has a great body and warmness, yet is is very dynamic). Maybe I'll post a link when I consider the piece finished. I am working at the tempos and the expression now, and this is something very time consuming. But I can say to you, based on what I listened, that True Pianos can do a much better job in this piece, IMO.
I also got both TruePianos and The Grandeur here and also Arturia Piano V (with my own preset for it). Will try to add those to my comprison ASAP and maybe also the Fazioli that is a bit tweaked using an EQ (so far it was a raw sound).

acrtually i had owned TruPIanos long time, bedfore most of teh sample libraries thet i own now (including the NI pianos from Komplete 10, XLN Studio Grand and Imperfect Sampels Fazioli).

For True Pianos in classical music, I use preferably the Diamond Classical and Warm (which are based in a Yamaha Grand, AFAIK) and/or the Atlantis Delicate or Dense (these are based in a Steinway Grand, I think).

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:55 pm

fmr wrote: For True Pianos in classical music, I use preferably the Diamond Classical and Warm (which are based in a Yamaha Grand, AFAIK) and/or the Atlantis Delicate or Dense (these are based in a Steinway Grand, I think).

Atlantis module with Delicate setting is my favorite from those so far. The Atlantis module is mentioned to be a "preview" to TruePianos v2.0 that was not released yet.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:59 pm

OK, I sort of managed to get the Rachmaninoff Prelude in a playable form, and tested several pianos: True Pianos, NI The Grandeur, The Mavericks, The Giant and also the older ones New York, Berlin and Vienna, Addictive Keys Studio Grand and UVI Fazioli and Steinway.

I have to say, first of all, that I found some problems in the sample maps of the UVI pianos. I have to report them at UVI, to see if they can fix that (but if the problem resides in the samples themselfes, then it's helpess).

My favourites (True Pianos and The Grandeur) remain my favourites, but I found some surprises. The XLN Studio Grand hols surprisingly well all the notes, and resonates in a very pleasant way.

Another surprise was the old New York and Vienna pianos for NI. New York, especially, has a body thast fills the room in a piece like this. Of course, neither of them is as well balanced and the new NI pianos, but they still have a place. Berlin was a disppointment. The Bechstein lacks body and warmth. It may be suited for Bach pieces and that, but not for these big chordal pieces with full dynamics.

The Giant was also a pleasant surprise. The Prelude didn't came out very well balanced, but those basses, oh my God, they are simply beautiful.

The Mavericks sounded as an old piano that wasn't played for a very long time. The sound is strangled, and a little muddy. It may sound satisfactory in more intimate pieces, but it lacks body and resonance in this one.

The Grandeur completely justifies it's name. The dynamic is fantastic, and the resonances are full and intense. True Pianos (Atlantis Delicate) sounds not delicate at all. Another bigger than life sound, that fills the room.

If you people want, I may render the piece with my best choices for you to listen. I am thinking to try to install the demo of Pianoteq, to see if I can play with it too.

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:03 pm

Dunno if you want to share the midi, we could render some of the pianos you haven't got?

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:14 pm

I don't mind, although you have to be aware that it is not a real time recording, and that it is still a work in progress. I still have to work further on the tempi and on the expressions. It is also distant of the usual interpretations (that have too much rubato for my taste). But is it playable, IMO.

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:59 pm

Cool I love playing pianos through midis, maybe too much!

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:53 am

Edited. All demos were added to teh original post (OP) of this thread (after the pianos list) so please check there for those.

Fleer · Post by **Fleer** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:41 pm

Wonderful. Would be interesting to run these through Pianoteq as well, for a "battle of modeled pianos" with 4Front and Arturia.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:53 pm

Fleer wrote:Wonderful. Would be interesting to run these through Pianoteq as well, for a "battle of modeled pianos" with 4Front and Arturia.

I could give a try with the Pianoteq 5 demo but i fear that the suicide rate along Pianoteq fans will increase after adding this to the comparison...

Well and based on my recent tests with the Pianoteq 5 demo this is not just meant as a joke, if we talk about pure sound quality...

Acoustic Grand Piano libraries/emulations: An Overview (audio demos of some pianos added)