Why is Steinberg working so hard to kill off VST2 when it works so well?

[Vertion]

HS, first, do not shame yourself by insulting me, be stronger than that.

You have many misconceptions about how being a plugin developer works. Most are a one man show, and have no time, nor extra capital to spend on lawsuits. Coders are generally introverts and avoid conflict and confrontation, but everyone has a limit.

Do not rationalize for the evil deeds of others, and I recommend taking the side of the people over self seeking corporations.

Most developers do not speak of losses in their business publicly, but you can find many examples of losses in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=508845

Also read this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=513563

[BlueprintInc]

Ableton added vst3 support in Feb. 2019 - more than 10 years after the vst3 "standard" was published.

Haha Yes, let's take one of the most buggy DAWs out there and wonder why they didn't add another plugin format, as an example for the "failing VST3"

Anyways I think both sides are clear. Like many others I have no problems with VST3 and I'm also not a introvert, shy and avoiding conflicts

Being disappointed may be a result of having too high expectations from the beginning

[quikquak]

Yeah, although I think it was Steinberg that had it's own 'high expectations' of VST3, that didn't quite go as planned. Which, of course, was our fault!!!

[pottering]

Ableton added vst3 support in Feb. 2019 - more than 10 years after the vst3 "standard" was published.

Haha Yes, let's take one of the most buggy DAWs out there and wonder why they didn't add another plugin format, as an example for the "failing VST3"

Anyways I think both sides are clear. Like many others I have no problems with VST3 and I'm also not a introvert, shy and avoiding conflicts

Being disappointed may be a result of having too high expectations from the beginning

Oh look at the Steinberg fanboi attacking Ableton Live, which uses both VST2 and VST3 and hence supposedly is a Steinberg partner (unlike Apple and Avid which cutoff VST completely from their ecosystem).

[Fender19]

The truth of the matter is, VST3 was a major failure for Steinberg. It was not embraced by the industry the way VST2 was. Not by the plugin manufacturers, not by the DAW manufacturers, ... for all the reasons explained above.

Instead of accepting it as a failure and listening to the industry, Steinberg decided to force vst3 into the industry by making vst2 illegal for new developers.

THAT is what frustrates me. If Steinberg doesn't want to support VST2 anymore that's fine. But don't make it "illegal" for those who do.

[pottering]

I'll spell it out explicitly what I said indirectly (with just the facts) before:

STEINBERG IS AN UNETHICAL COMPANY

Steinberg abuses any control they can get over standards to create arbitrary commercial advantages for themselves over their competitors.

The developers that use their standards were never properly warned their work would be used that way, as leverage against Steinberg competitors, that is, as leverage against themselves (since Steinberg sells VST and VST hosts).

Oh, I know "ethics" is arguable and this post is not a "slam dunk" argument against Steinberg.

After all, "Ethics" comes up when the situation is "grey", no one argues the "ethics" of obvious things like murder and pedophilia.

But again, I argue:

STEINBERG IS AN UNETHICAL COMPANY, they are clearly abusing their control of VST to disadvantage direct competitors to their products, especially newcomers (but not only, as the attack against Ableton Live above shows).

(Furthermore, I would argue it is really Steinberg, not Yamaha, as nothing really points at Yamaha interfering with Steinberg.)

This post may get mod attention, but I believe the facts show this post's statement is reasonably within the forum's rules.

At least I've seen much stronger accusations against multiple other companies here on KVR, like the ones thrown at that prog rock keyboardist, and against Computer Music Magazine and their plugin reviews.

[Vokbuz]

Oh look at the Steinberg fanboi attacking Ableton Live, which uses both VST2 and VST3 and hence supposedly is a Steinberg partner (unlike Apple and Avid which cutoff VST completely from their ecosystem).

Both? Live does not support VST3 yet. It will (and its beta does), but not the current release.

[Aleatoriac]

it's the right way to force progress

Capitalism exposed for what it is

[frizzbee]

you can't change it anyways so what? improvise, adapt, overcome

[Vokbuz]

they are clearly abusing their control of VST to disadvantage direct competitors to their products, especially newcomers (but not only, as the attack against Ableton Live above shows)

What competitors? And why are you worrying about Ableton and "attack" against it? I see no whining from direct competitors, only from some (and I believe small) plugin developers. But plugin developers are all in the same situation.

[Xenakios]

only from plugin developers here.

New host developers are completely screwed, though. Their products can now never support all the thousands of VST2 plugins out there. Granted, much of that stuff is of questionable quality, but users of a new host might still want to use those plugins. Host developers who came to the market earlier than October 2018 now have a competitive advantage that has nothing to do with the quality or innovation level of their products. There are far fewer host developers than plugin developers, so of course at this point in time the complaints are mostly going to come from plugin developers.

[Vokbuz]

New host developers are completely screwed, though. Their products can now never support all the hundreds or thousands of VST2 plugins out there.

Yes, evil Steinberg wants to attack non-existent potential competitors.

[pottering]

New host developers are completely screwed, though. Their products can now never support all the hundreds or thousands of VST2 plugins out there.

Yes, evil Steinberg wants to attack non-existent potential competitors.

Exactly...

Potential competitors to Steinberg become non-existent, they can't legally create VST2 plugins or VST2 hosts.

[pottering]

Oh look at the Steinberg fanboi attacking Ableton Live, which uses both VST2 and VST3 and hence supposedly is a Steinberg partner (unlike Apple and Avid which cutoff VST completely from their ecosystem).

Both? Live does not support VST3 yet. It will (and its beta does), but not the current release.

Not true, Max For Live can load VST3 in current Live non-beta version.

https://cycling74.com/forums/will-max-8 ... 3-plug-ins

And Ableton Live's shortcomings don't change the facts about Steinberg, that come from Steinberg's own actions.

[frizzbee]

Not true, Max For Live can load VST3 in current Live non-beta version.

https://cycling74.com/forums/will-max-8 ... 3-plug-ins

but then your vst2 steinberg potential competitor statement isn't true too, because lots of plugins can host vst2 plugins without hassle and are available for anyone who wants to do so. that already makes vst2 and vst3 and au available in pro tools and so...