For Steinberg, any future product and update release, Windows below 10 is 'dead'

[dionenoid]

Did they say it wouldn’t work, or just that they won’t support it?

Exactly this - The future products may still work fine, just if they don't and you contact them they'll probably just go: 'Soz dunno mate we can't provide support for it'

So if you're happy with your existing OS then stick with it, and for safety to your DAW version too

Exactly. What i've read is that there are only minor issues that can possibly arise when running C10.5 on Win7.

[chk071]

As i mentioned. You couldn't install Cubase 5 on Windows XP without a hack, because the installer made a OS check. If that's the case with future Cubase versions as well, then the common user won't be able to install it. Unless he searches for, and finds a tutorial on the net on how to bypasse the installer's OS check. Which most won't do.

Again, IF it's still the same, and the installer does a OS check. Maybe it won't. Who knows.

[stearine]

Funny that you say that, because nobody is forcing you to use Linux! so the "have" is pretty much pointless.

I don't recall anyone talking about being forced. Time and value are major factors. It's fun to mess around with stuff and learn new things when you have the time, in addition to considering it valuable by its own merit. "Having time" in this context means that the other, higher priority things didn't consume it completely, but even that's not enough, you actually have to be interested to learn to work with different tools in a different environment and see the potential reward in it.

"mostly useless" also depends on what you are talking about specifically, you mean commands to execute a function? which ones? How do you define "mostly useless" if for someone else they might find incredibly useful?

Your questions are inane. As to how I define "mostly useless"; something that doesn't add value. Besides not adding value, in this case by virtue of being new and different it inevitably consumes valuable time, so its (learning Linux) net worth may easily amount to negative.

[Forgotten]

Guys, Linux is here to stay, but has it’s strengths outside of personal computing. However, we all have personal choice, so it’s a valid choice for anyone who wants to learn it, regardless of another’s opinions.

There’s not much point in debating the ‘value’ of learning it, as that value will differ from person to person.

[Psuper]

Guys, Linux is here to stay, but has it’s strengths outside of personal computing. However, we all have personal choice, so it’s a valid choice for anyone who wants to learn it, regardless of another’s opinions.

There’s not much point in debating the ‘value’ of learning it, as that value will differ from person to person.

Yep, and Linux is preferable, especially in the ways I've already addressed. It's still beyond many people's desire to 'get into' (especially the instant gratification swaths), even though the learning part is minor these days unless you want to roll your own flavor.

Its genuinely fun for the tech-minded, opens up countless open source options some of which are mindblowing, and free... there's no real downside to Linux at all - just another do-it-all tool in the box.

[stearine]

There’s not much point in debating the ‘value’ of learning it, as that value will differ from person to person.

I'm not debating that, and the relativity of projected value is a truism. It requires so little thought that it's only reasonable to assume that everyone knows and agrees on that. I'm only reminding that adopting a new software environment is not just a matter of "taking the time to learn it". When you don't have the luxury of unlimited time to spend on experimenting with anything and everything that crosses your mind, you look at everything in terms of value vs. investment.

My point is only this: When you evaluate the value vs. investment in "learning Linux" in current state of affairs, there is very little need for further explanation as to why Linux still isn't [more] mainstream. It's because for the vast majority of people, it may require a huge investment of time, while adding very little value. The geek is the exception, not the rule.

there's no real downside to Linux at all

This statement is wrong and completely unnecessary for advocating Linux. I know many people whose lives have revolved around using computers, many of whom use Linux (amongst other *NIX derivatives) at home and/or at work, and they would never make such an absurd statement. In fact I've found that when it comes to tools or technology it's the people going through their honeymoon period with a thing that are most uncritical of it. The engineer who's spent 30 years using the same tools and technology, will not shy away from pointing out every minuscule defect and design flaw in them while speculating how to improve them, and then in the most boring, coldly calculating manner explains why he's using this or that thing over the alternatives. I don't know one Linux user who never says "#¤%$ing Linux/FOSS", goes on a rant, then gets back to using it anyway, and you don't want to ask him why because he could start and never stop.


P.s. I'm also not discrediting Linux. All I'm saying is that which is written, so read it and not into it.

[Passing Bye]

As i mentioned. You couldn't install Cubase 5 on Windows XP without a hack, because the installer made a OS check.

You couldn't install 64 bit version on XP, but XP was officially supported for 32 bit version.

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/l ... stem0.html

[chk071]

Right... memory messed up. Apologies.

[Psuper]

there's no real downside to Linux at all

This statement is wrong and completely unnecessary for advocating Linux. I know many people whose lives have revolved around using computers, many of whom use Linux (amongst other *NIX derivatives) at home and/or at work, and they would never make such an absurd statement. In fact I've found that when it comes to tools or technology it's the people going through their honeymoon period with a thing that are most uncritical of it. The engineer who's spent 30 years using the same tools and technology, will not shy away from pointing out every minuscule defect and design flaw in them while speculating how to improve them, and then in the most boring, coldly calculating manner explains why he's using this or that thing over the alternatives. I don't know one Linux user who never says "#¤%$ing Linux/FOSS", goes on a rant, then gets back to using it anyway, and you don't want to ask him why because he could start and never stop.


P.s. I'm also not discrediting Linux. All I'm saying is that which is written, so read it and not into it.

1. There is no downside to using Linux at all. Its a tool -- whether you use it or not is preference. You are the absurd one.
2. You take yourself too seriously, and are the only one reading 'into' things hence your book to our sentences.

[DuX]

I seriously adore Linux as an everyday OS, and I've been using it for 6 years for that. It wasn't hard at all to change my main OS. I think it's easier to use than Windows, especially W7 and W10. It's on par with MacOS. It gives me a piece of mind when browsing [no AV] and doing regular work. It's always out of the way, not bothering me with any updates [it's done automatically and you don't need to stop working or restart the OS], or bothering you with anything, really. I love it!

My only problem with Debian Linux 9.9 I use is - it is boring. It just works ffs! I miss Windows problems every now and then!

On the other hand, using W7 and XP for audio, no internet, no AV and FW, is just the way things have to be done for now, I think. Not that I'm not complaining, but you know... f*** it.

Corporations can kill an OS whenever they choose. Corporations can kill a lot of things. All they think about is profit. I wouldn't trust them with keeping an eye on the public toilet. Linux can't be killed. No matter what the corporations do. Knowing how to work with it is always a good investment of your time.

[THE INTRANCER]

For every plus that Linux has, there's a downside, there's more downs than up's in my 14 years of experience in using Linux. Installing applications and getting them to work properly is pretty much a complete hit or miss or miss affair... (Can't stand using that 1980's terminal). Limited number of commercial applications support it properly or at all plus there is very limited tech support. The alternatives are pretty much poor imitation's of commercial software on Windows. Linux has a few advantages over Windows but very few that really matter... Moving to Linux isn't an alternative, it's more of a compromise... and with having thousands of pounds of software that doesn't properly support it including my primary DAW, leaving Windows for it, just isn't an option. I run a dual boot with Linux Mint 18.3, but I rarely ever boot into it.

[Psuper]

Interesting.. Dux has been using Linux for 6 years and loves it (and I agree with most of what he said), Intrancer has 14 years and can only think of downsides that frankly sound more like inexperience than anything (and I disagree with most of what he said).

I started my linux journey in the mid 90s (25ish years) because the frankenstein-building aspect drew me in and was comfortable with a dos/terminal prompt... yet rarely have to do much in the terminal these days its so streamlined, depends on the distro I'm playing with. I don't enjoy 'rolling my own' anymore I just don't have the time and there's no real need.

Regardless, if you want to start you can look at Mint/Ubuntu, Suse, Arch, Elementary... truthfully there's so many 'plug and play' distros these days I think its more about 'too much choice' being a off-putting factor than anything. Most people who have never used Linux already likely use tons of open source without thought (phones, browsers, office, video, email, etc etc), its not much of a different experience in the learning aspect with an OS unless you want to dig deeper. Just take an old PC if you have one and experiment - you don't need to replace your OS of choice you can run anything you like side by side -- but at least you'll know what choices exist.

[chk071]

How you can say that Linux just works, and Windows doesn't is absolutely beyond me. That's the total opposite of what i experienced with... Ubuntu, Linux Mint, OpenSuse, and other distros, running on several computers. I ALWAYS had to fix something. Or fiddle with the terminal. Or configure something in more or less cryptic text files.

Windows and Mac OS are a breeze compared. Unsurprisingly.

[codec_spurt]

I seriously adore Linux as an everyday OS, and I've been using it for 6 years for that. It wasn't hard at all to change my main OS. I think it's easier to use than Windows, especially W7 and W10. It's on par with MacOS. It gives me a piece of mind when browsing [no AV] and doing regular work. It's always out of the way, not bothering me with any updates [it's done automatically and you don't need to stop working or restart the OS], or bothering you with anything, really. I love it!

My only problem with Debian Linux 9.9 I use is - it is boring. It just works ffs! I miss Windows problems every now and then!

On the other hand, using W7 and XP for audio, no internet, no AV and FW, is just the way things have to be done for now, I think. Not that I'm not complaining, but you know... f*** it.

Corporations can kill an OS whenever they choose. Corporations can kill a lot of things. All they think about is profit. I wouldn't trust them with keeping an eye on the public toilet. Linux can't be killed. No matter what the corporations do. Knowing how to work with it is always a good investment of your time.

Good to see KVR back up after going down at exactly the same time as Gearslutz. And Gearslutz coming back up at the same time KVR does. Though Gearslutz is hellish slow, like it was earlier before it went down...

ahem...

Yeah, Linux is good.

I enjoyed using it for LAMP stack stuff. Basic web development. Drupal in fact at that time. MySQL database. Apache server. PHP/Perl CGI. Worked like a dream.

I had a tandem development 'environment' set up in windoze just for checking and testing. Didn't work as nicely as the Linux set up.

Then the Linux distro I was using came to end of life and I didn't know how to migrate. Some other RL stuff happened too around the time and I wasn't at my brightest. I got stuff backed up, but redeploying it on another OS (albeit Linux) wasn't so simple. So it just got lost, about a years worth of work.

So now I tend to go with LTS releases. But I don't have a Linux box at the moment. The last one I had the computer f**ked up, so... yeah, got a backup, but you know...

Lots of good tools in Linux. Especially for web development stuff. Can do quite a bit with Virtual Machines as well. I kind of surf along with Linux until I hit a point that I can't get over. You can't ask for help as the community is full of shit-heads. Even though I've spent weeks working stuff out like how to get pulse audio working on Kubuntu and written it all up, no one really helps you in the Linux community, and that includes Linux Mint as well (the best one there is). Linux attracts the autists, and that is why there will never be a Linux Desktop.

It is what it is, and I still like it. I do tutorials around the place and get people up to speed if they want to learn it. I explain about the different types of 'desktops' like XFCE and LXDE and KDE etc. etc.

I explain about distros that write to RAM and ones that really need to be run 'live' like Knoppix.

I help them get a working WinXP VM up and running from within Linux and Virtual Box, or even VMWare these days I'm getting in to as well.

Linux can do a lot. And it is a lot of fun. It's a shame about the community. Indifferent at best and outright abusive at worst. I know a lot of devs hate the Linux OS and the community of autists it has with a vengeance. I guess they had bad experiences. And windows works for them. It's not like anyone really needs Linux.

I just accept it for what it is.

A good Linux distro can turn an old machine in to an order of magnitude faster box again. But it takes work unless you get lucky. Drivers for graphics chips being a bottle neck to getting a good working set up. And that can really fry your machine super quick. Heat is the enemy.

The thing is with the superb set up I had, that I had fully backed up, was the fact that they nuked the distro, so no back up would ever work - it would need migrating to a newer version of that distro.

I messed about with Debian, various installs. And even used the LMDE Debian version of Linux Mint. Which is a bit faster, but is harder to troubleshoot unless you are very Linux tech savvy, when you hit a problem. As I said, I was not able to sort out the problems when I eventually hit them on this particular distro (not talking about my other dev machine).

But I've had a lot of fun recently using VMWare and virtual installs of different Linux distros (Mint mainly) and using them to create Live USB installs on USB sticks, including persistence. You are going through several layers and looping back between the HAL (hardware abstraction layer) so it can get very confusing and doesn't always work - it's a bit of a hack in fact a lot of the time, at least for me at my level - but it's very satisfying when you get a working usb install of Linux Mint that you made up on WinX in a VM running another version of Linux Mint.

The HAL goes in to a kind of weird feedback loop sometimes when doing this. It's abstracting various layers down via the usb hardware port. One install that I got working and working perfectly with persistence (not so easy) took about 6 hours to write to usb pen drive. But it worked. Weird. It should have only taken 20 minutes or so to write to disk. But there you go.

That is why I like running distros like Knoppix off a usb stick. They are meant to run as live OS. And if you use the 'toram' switch when you start the compo, it writes the OS to RAM. Which makes it blazing fast.

I also have Partition Magic which is one of the few other Live Linux distros that writes to RAM. You have to pay a small fee for it now - about a tenner I think - but it's well worth it.

The only other Linux distro off the top of my head that writes to RAM is Puppy Linux. I used a fork of that distro called FatDog64 and it was very fast, but it had problems. I don't mess with that anymore.

I'm happy with Mint and all its flavours depending on what I want to do. That is my first choice, usually with an XFCE 'desktop'. It's lightweight and windows like.

I have Knoppix for the tools it provides. Ditto Partition Magic.


One thing I will say though about Linux and making music is how good WINE works. I got a really fantastic little setup going running REAPER with compatible VST plugins. It worked like a charm. Super fast. Super stable. No issues at all. It seems that things either worked or they didn't, so you knew pretty quickly what was doable or not.

I have that all backed up as well. But this time the machine itself blew up.

I think if I was going to set up a Linux box for music making, I would deffo look at WINE to start off with and REAPER of course.

I could put Energy XT on there as well, as that has a Linux version (no idea how well it works), and I have Bitwig 8-Track, plus Tracktion Waveform also. This is all native of course, as well as REAPER running native too (not on WINE). So that is 4 pretty decent DAWs there to start with.

But as you say DuX, Linux as an every day OS is probably where it's at its greatest strength. And as I mentioned, it's a pretty good development environment for noobs like me, until it all goes Pete Tong!


Still, can't thank you enough for that streamlined install of WinXP you did. It never fails. It was a work of art really. Sublime.

Those were the good days. Nowadays, Microshaft is not only raping our data, they are raping our hardware as well in the process. And it doesn't get better...

So yeah, a little time spent getting up to speed in Linux is time well invested.

There is no competion when it comes to running our DAWs and all our available plugins. But for every day use (office stuff, internet stuff, bit of graphics, even 3D) Linux is a serious contender, and as has been noted, it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Those rude indifferent autists will make sure of that!


As for Cubase, who cares? I've got the full version plus two copies of Elements. I've already got enough DAWs anyway, but it's an amusement to me, after it being the first DAW I experienced all those decades ago. It's a great program but it's not the only game in town.

And as for running machines not connected to the net. I recently rebuilt and even cloned (hardware clone) my laptop of about 8 years with most of my work on it. It blew up. Got clogged and over-heated and the MOBO went kaput! New Mobo, new machine, new hard disk, new SSD, new HD enclosure where the CD/DVD used to be. Brand new! And now I got two of them. All tested all working. Drives totally cloned as well with backup drives waiting to slot in should they fail. Quadruple redundancy.

My win7 install only has about a dozen entries in task manager and only takes up about a Gig of RAM. I've kind of spent years streamlining that myself, and it works. I could reconnect to the net, and I'll probably have to at some point to re-register software, but for now, the wifi is disabled and the ethernet is unplugged.

That's the same laptop btw that run that awesome Linux install that came to end of life. I used it every day for about 18 months. Web development. Surfing. Listening to music (though not making music). Learning Linux itself.

It's funny, teaching people Linux and getting them up to speed enough to get things working to at least be able to surf the net. Then running in to a problem that you just aren't clever enough to solve, and spending a week sometimes trying to do so - then going on to a forum to ask for help, only to be told IT'S PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT EXPECT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING DO YOUR HOMEWORK WE ARE NOT YOUR PERSONAL SUPPORT TEAM HOW DARE YOU EVEN ASK THIS STUPID STUPID QUESTION WHY DIDN'T YOU RTFM?



Explaining that you spent about 40 hours researching the problem seems to just be met with 'crickets'. Bless 'em.


Linux isn't for everyone. Most music software doesn't work on it. But you can still do a lot music wise (just remembered I have Harrison Mixbus to add to my native Linux DAWs) even just in WINE.

But it's not really difficult to get a decent system up and running to do basic internet surfing and office stuff. Very often breathing life in to older machines as well.

Will Steinberg ever adopt it for their software? Nah.

Anyway, the fastest system I have is running DuXP, and it runs like shit off a blanket! Overclocked first (or is it second) generation i5 CPU - 3.6GHz. 4 Gigs of RAM. 512MB GFX card. 3 WD Blacks.

[KenjiDeVries]

The stereotypical myth of a user-unfriendly overly complicated Linux is outdated for years now. But people keep telling it to keep it small. Superior Mac is not up-to-date anymore as well. Working on Windows7 here as backward compatibility to some old software & plugins is a thing here. Anyways back to topic: Steinberg going the easy path isn't something new. Happy to have switched from Cubase long ago. If it helps them to finally get their sh*t together, I appreciate that decision. Doing it mid cycle is am absolute dick move though imo.