Why don’t u-he synths Sound as good as hardware?

[Urs]

agree yes but when listening the arturia or even some stuff in monark i wouldn t say it s cause it s modeled on a different moog. it s clearly not things i heard with analog synth , or not on par with analog synths , i don t know legend and model 72 but i m pretty sure some spots are also not like the hardware it s modelled on.
all the emulation feel like different synths with same architecute almost, some of that is cause of the synths it s modelled but it feel like it s also cause of different modelling technics

People who develop such emulations have to make decisions sooner or later, because some artefacts present in analogue synths may appear to be bugs if present in software.

Sometimes though it's a pity when defining features are neglected for what appears to be a polished caricature of the original sound.

I have recently started to work on yet another Minimoog emulation because I got annoyed by the lack of attention to detail in some highly praised software versions. Unfortunately of course I have no time to turn a little research project into a product. It'll probably help to improve Diva one fine day, after certain other projects get finished.

[AnX]

I have recently started to work on yet another Minimoog emulation because I got annoyed by the lack of attention to detail in some highly praised software versions.

Diva?

[Urs]

I have recently started to work on yet another Minimoog emulation because I got annoyed by the lack of attention to detail in some highly praised software versions.

Diva?

In a meta way. I’d like to think that after Diva and Repro people would improve on the state of the art, given such examples. Hence my disappointment to find that recent attempts couldn’t convince me as much as, say, Diva or Monark would, even considering Diva’s obvious abstraction from the original architecture.

[AnX]

I have recently started to work on yet another Minimoog emulation because I got annoyed by the lack of attention to detail in some highly praised software versions.

Diva?

In a meta way. I’d like to think that after Diva and Repro people would improve on the state of the art, given such examples.

Nah, you just need a new gui every 2 months...

[zerocrossing]

It’s just semantics.

actually, its a technical term.

We all ask for a “Kleenex”

but that's something else entirely, a genericized trademark.

now, if you were to say that you always ask for 'wine' when it could be red wine, or white wine, or rose, and argued that everyone expects it to mean red wine, you'd be closer.

Also, I don’t know about the technical aspects of things, but I’d imagine that some synths that we call wavetable synths aren’t using a sample the way traditional wavetable synths work.

do you mean traditional single-cycle wavetables, or traditional multi-cycle wavetables?

Pedantics: 1 Poets: 0

[whyterabbyt]

It’s just semantics.

actually, its a technical term.

We all ask for a “Kleenex”

but that's something else entirely, a genericized trademark.

now, if you were to say that you always ask for 'wine' when it could be red wine, or white wine, or rose, and argued that everyone expects it to mean red wine, you'd be closer.

Also, I don’t know about the technical aspects of things, but I’d imagine that some synths that we call wavetable synths aren’t using a sample the way traditional wavetable synths work.

do you mean traditional single-cycle wavetables, or traditional multi-cycle wavetables?

Pedantics: 1 Poets: 0

maybe try being poetic about your art, not your tools.

[suthnear]

I have recently started to work on yet another Minimoog emulation because I got annoyed by the lack of attention to detail in some highly praised software versions.

Diva?

In a meta way. I’d like to think that after Diva and Repro people would improve on the state of the art, given such examples. Hence my disappointment to find that recent attempts couldn’t convince me as much as, say, Diva or Monark would, even considering Diva’s obvious abstraction from the original architecture.

I have never had a minimoog but I briefly had a boog and extensively compared it with all the then current software minimoog emulations. Diva was overall the closest: in most cases the two were indistinguishable. With at least two of the emus, it seemed like the dev's intention was to improve on the sound because I needed to process the boog to get it to sound more like the emulation...

[chk071]

Out of interest: Which ones were those two?

When I compared them, Diva and Monark sounded very close to each other. At least a lot closer than Monark and Model 72. Which kind of defeats the "it's the differences in the units" argument, because, I doubt that Monark and Diva were modelled on the same Minimoog.

I also highly doubt that two emulations by different developers would sound the same, IF they modelled them on the same unit.

I'm sure there are (subtle) differences in the modelled units, but, I also think there are differences in the way developers approach their emulations.

[suthnear]

Legend and monark (model 72 wasn't out at that time). Monark was the closer of those two, but still not as close as diva. I am very tempted to say that legend sounded better than the boog, at least from the point of view of a finished sound: like it's been equalised and compressed already. But I actually prefer the rawness of analogue so that polish also means that I found it the least charming of the three emus. That diva was so close coupled with the fact that it can go so much further was the reason I ultimately sold the boog...

[chk071]

Thanks.

As I wrote, I found Monark and Diva pretty close. Monark saturates a bit more, the parameter ranges are obviously different, and there were differences in the envelopes as well, but, they were closer than Legend or Model 72 to each other. FWIW.

Was also close to getting the Behringer a few times. Maybe I will at some point. Although I would dislike not being able to save patches and all the fuss that comes with the hardware.

[HAL76]

I don´t really get why the discussion seems to turn around wellness hotels now, but I´d say that the answer on the question from the headline is simple: The U-he synths don´t sound like hardware because they are software synths and digital by nature.

Call me stupid now, call me daddy, whatever…

You’re stupid, daddy.

Kidding aside, what is your point? There are plenty of digital hardware synths. They all sound like themselves, but there isn’t some “hardware” sound, though people would love to make you believe it. I guess it’s time for my favorite story. We all know how I love to drone on about it. Had to (not really) go ITB for a time. Started looking into a full laptop setup. I never actually went ITB (the cause went away), but I did ditch my digital hardware synths. I spent a few weeks going over each synth with acceptable replacement plugin. Some were spot on, or even better, like the case of my Wavestation vs. Korg’s Wavestation plugin. (The plugin used the full 16 bit ROM waveforms while the hardware used truncated 11 bit waveforms, if memory serves.) Other synths, like my Virus C and MS2000 had no direct emulations, but plugins like Zebra 2 or Sylenth did a fine job of getting in the neighborhood, and in some ways surpassing the hardware.

Smash cut to 2022, and plugin development has flourished, while digital hardware synths have seen a lot less development. Only recently are we seeing things like the Iridium and Hydrasynth that are turning people’s attention away from software, or more like providing the no-software crowd with modern hardware tools to get up to speed. I’ve personally got no dog in this race, but I’ve yet to hear a digital hardware synth that makes me want to buy it, except for Modor’s NF-1, but I’ve been able to get pretty close using ArcSyn. (Plus, ArcSyn does a lot more.) If you feel like hardware sounds better, knock yourself out. There’s plenty of choice these days and no reason to put anything down.

You did it, you naughty boy Didn´t I tell you to bertter ask your mom? I guess she´s just busy, isn´t she?

Short bread - my two cents: I´m a member of the "there is a HW sound" party and what you´re just doing is just like trying to convince a republican to join the democrats. You´re telling me - once again - how good software is for you - and also implicitly that we do not need diversity as some plugins can do everything (< these "all in one" super-hybrid vst toys).

Democratic principles are well known to all of us and we use them regularly, but we use HW - let´s say republican sauce - to extend our sonic capabilities into regions where softies can´t even breathe anymore.

I haven´t added a new song to my list of great sounding productions for a long time now and I fear that won´t happen again that quickly as people seem to have lost the sense for sound in the last two decades. In my case it was - really - early childhood education. My father (in his generation your car and your hifi sytem made you a man) wanted us to develop the ability to hear the differences.

I know those discussion for decades already - back then it was about mp3 vs CD. I´d also say that there´s surely no difference if you compare them with a boom box or a regular hifi system. MP3 is also great for the normal daily usage. But I´m the wrong go to person for you if you want to convince me that all quality measures don´t exist anymore and synths are "all equal now".

[Super Piano Hater 64]

republican sauce

I think there are a lot of other analogies you could have used, and I really wish you had.

[pierb]

It'll probably help to improve Diva one fine day, after certain other projects get finished.

I hope you're talking about Zebra 3 here!

[pierb]

In a meta way. I’d like to think that after Diva and Repro people would improve on the state of the art, given such examples. Hence my disappointment to find that recent attempts couldn’t convince me as much as, say, Diva or Monark would, even considering Diva’s obvious abstraction from the original architecture.

What's your opinion on The Legend Urs?

[kobal]

who heard already this? maybe monark is the closest on extreme settings ? i remember it won the fm test on starsky video https://soundcloud.com/nativeinstrument ... comparison