Is the Virtual Instrument era over?

[Uncle E]

Certainly, there are some companies still putting out new instruments, but they don't seem to be getting much traction. For example, Hyperion and F'em by Traktion.

F'em is one of our best selling synths. Granted, the price they let us sell it for last month was insane but it's going to get a lot more people interested in it because it's a great synth. I've never heard another FM synth sound as analog as that new VCFM expansion for it.

There's a synth coming out next week that has something like the Sequential Prophet 5's "Vintage Knob" in it. I haven't tried it yet but I'm pretty excited about the possibilities.

[tony10000]

Certainly, there are some companies still putting out new instruments, but they don't seem to be getting much traction. For example, Hyperion and F'em by Traktion.

F'em is one of our best selling synths. Granted, the price they let us sell it for last month was insane but it's going to get a lot more people interested in it because it's a great synth. I've never heard another FM synth sound as analog as that new VCFM expansion for it.

There's a synth coming out next week that has something like the Sequential Prophet 5's "Vintage Knob" in it. I haven't tried it yet but I'm pretty excited about the possibilities.

That is good to hear, although low sale prices mean less profit for the dev and retailer and is kind of a race to the bottom.

I am just worried that established developers are going to have a hard time if all they are doing is supporting their present synths and not selling any new ones. There is a limited and saturated market for them, and from what I have heard, even the most successful virtual synths only sell in the tens of thousands of units.

I am sure that the old faithful synths such as Serum and Diva aren't selling that many units these days. And Native Instruments seems to have dropped their synth development after the Massive X debacle. They just dropped sales and support of Absynth, one of their original softsynths.

Urs and u-he have reportedly had to do sales with Native Instruments just to get needed working capital to keep going. They also just did one with Bitwig. Many people who are getting Zebra 3 have already paid for it (me included) by purchasing Dark Zebra. So, that means that there will be less money coming in the door.

I am sure you have a better perspective since you are a retailer. Perhaps you can provide additional insight without revealing any secrets.

[Tj Shredder]

What a strange topic. I am happy to be mainly in the box. Going back to hardware like I was forced 30 years ago would be a nightmare. I can put my complete setup including controllers in my backpack, its lighter than a single hardware synth, and sounds better, more interesting, is way easier to program etc…
Hardware has its own advantages, in the end its about inspiration and what you love personally. I suspect you spent a lot of money on hardware and need some justification to feel better. That doesn’t work that way. There is no need to justify high costs other than the music it leads to…
A free synth like Surge running on a Raspberry Pi will smoke any hardware synth in terms of accessibility, programability and sound! The claim software development is slowing down I can’t see in the real world. Did you do the math claiming that a software synth “only” sells 10000 copies? A copy has no production cost. Its zero! The cost for soft synths is going down, as they only have to cover the development, which is also easier (cheaper) than the development for a hardware synth…
There isn’t a single fact that could support your claim. Just look a bit deeper. At the same time, hardware will always remain as well. My hardware is my laptop, my iPad, a ton of controllers and recently a Skulpt synth, as its also usable as controller…
Most new and innovative (non-subtractive or analog) synths are simply running on a slow CPU in a clumsy box you have to pay for extra. Technically that doesn’t make sense… It would be better to run it on a recent CPU in a recent computer…

[Dombaeb]

The biggest problems with softsynths is the interface and thin, unimpressive sound. Even with a lot of processing. A lot of possibilities can’t give you that “oh my god that’s huge” feeling, it can do only sound itself.

But, there are couple of softsynths that sounds very impressive from the box. Falcon, Repro, Imaginando, Dune, G-Force synths and pretty unexpectable for me - Bitwig Polymer. I’m using these synths together with hardware, but none of these can’t compete with plain intuitive exploration feeling that can provide physical knobs.

So, I believe that in the end musicians will use anything that can sounds good. That should be developers focus.

Note to developers: stop to make shiny toys and “sound designers dream” things, please. focus on sound.

[ramseysounds]

I am sure that the old faithful synths such as Serum and Diva aren't selling that many units these days.

Source? Other than your vivid imagination

[tony10000]

What a strange topic. I am happy to be mainly in the box. Going back to hardware like I was forced 30 years ago would be a nightmare. I can put my complete setup including controllers in my backpack, its lighter than a single hardware synth, and sounds better, more interesting, is way easier to program etc…
Hardware has its own advantages, in the end its about inspiration and what you love personally. I suspect you spent a lot of money on hardware and need some justification to feel better. That doesn’t work that way. There is no need to justify high costs other than the music it leads to…
A free synth like Surge running on a Raspberry Pi will smoke any hardware synth in terms of accessibility, programability and sound! The claim software development is slowing down I can’t see in the real world. Did you do the math claiming that a software synth “only” sells 10000 copies? A copy has no production cost. Its zero! The cost for soft synths is going down, as they only have to cover the development, which is also easier (cheaper) than the development for a hardware synth…
There isn’t a single fact that could support your claim. Just look a bit deeper. At the same time, hardware will always remain as well. My hardware is my laptop, my iPad, a ton of controllers and recently a Skulpt synth, as its also usable as controller…
Most new and innovative (non-subtractive or analog) synths are simply running on a slow CPU in a clumsy box you have to pay for extra. Technically that doesn’t make sense… It would be better to run it on a recent CPU in a recent computer…

Actually, I work completely in-the-box. No hardware at all, except for a controller. I had a studio full of gear back in the 80s. My first synth was a Korg Poly 800 back at the beginning of the MIDI era. I accumulated synths, sequencers and drum machines from a wide array of companies including Yamaha, Roland, Korg, Kawai, Ensoniq, Alesis, etc.

I started working towards producing totally in the box in the 90s using soundcards from Turtle Beach, Roland, Yamaha, and Emu/Soundblaster and sold off all of my gear. In the early 2000s, I jumped on the soft synth bandwagon. I was an early adopter of Reason and FL Studio. Now, I have virtually (pun intended) every VI I can think of and am disappointed to see that new VI development has slowed to a crawl (and full updates are also moving very slowly as well--blame Apple for that one).

When I say this era is over, I don't mean that everyone will suddenly stop using VIs and replace everything with hardware. I just see a slow shift in the zeitgeist and hardware is now in the spotlight everywhere I look. Whether or not this trend will continue or not will depend upon a number of factors. I am hopeful that VIs will see a resurgence with new developers entering the market and the pioneers will start turning out exciting new products again.

[tony10000]

I am sure that the old faithful synths such as Serum and Diva aren't selling that many units these days.

Source? Other than your vivid imagination

I don't reveal my sources or methods. Sorry!

[Rastkovic]

The biggest problems with softsynths is the interface and thin, unimpressive sound. Even with a lot of processing. A lot of possibilities can’t give you that “oh my god that’s huge” feeling, it can do only sound itself.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. You can use "thin" sounding synths for layering and make it interesting with stereo effects, likewise there are thin sounding hardware synths. The sound quality counts, but sound quality doesn't mean necessarily huge, wide, or massive....

[tony10000]

The biggest problems with softsynths is the interface and thin, unimpressive sound. Even with a lot of processing. A lot of possibilities can’t give you that “oh my god that’s huge” feeling, it can do only sound itself.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. You can use "thin" sounding synths for layering and make it interesting with stereo effects, likewise there are thin sounding hardware synths. The sound quality counts, but sound quality doesn't mean necessarily huge, wide, or massive....

Also, a lot of hardware synths are "soft synths"...essentially dedicated computers.

[Dombaeb]

The point is not about that every soft synth should be huge, wide or supermassive. Phase plant, for example, has that super crystal glassy sound that hardware Moog can’t produce. But, a lot of softsynths sounds very similar and lack of liveliness. Everyone can make layers, but you have 2-3 hours maximum to fix your ideas and if synth sounds wrong, you will spend half of that time making sound design, not music

The biggest problems with softsynths is the interface and thin, unimpressive sound. Even with a lot of processing. A lot of possibilities can’t give you that “oh my god that’s huge” feeling, it can do only sound itself.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. You can use "thin" sounding synths for layering and make it interesting with stereo effects, likewise there are thin sounding hardware synths. The sound quality counts, but sound quality doesn't mean necessarily huge, wide, or massive....

[PAK]

Unfortunately most are wrapping VST2 products or aren't implementing many of the supposed advantages of VST3.

And you have firsthand knowledge of this how?
Name these VST2 wrapped as VST3 plugins.

Err - the easy way to tell is any VST3 instrument which doesn't work when the VST2 component is deleted! Rob Papen's stuff would be an example iirc? Also, in terms of usage, the example I used is how I find it extremely annoying just how many "supposed" VST3's don't actually properly suspend their processor load on idle, even with the option enabled in the host. Worse, it can introduce stability issues etc! YMMV (? ... )

But that comment was also a wider reference to things like the JUCE framework, where it's not "actually" a wrapped instrument, but JUCE is handling the export to VST3. In such cases that means a dev isn't strictly targeting any particular format and, as a result, is both reliant on that framework for what you get on the other end, and less likely to use specific features (of any format) since things aren't actually being written with it in mind!

Of course, if CLAP also adds these multi-format export tools, and catches on in a similar way to JUCE whilst having its own advantages, and IF it sees wide industry support from anyone who isn't Steinberg (granted, a lot of IF's) then I believe that could be enough to replace VST as the dominant plugin standard in future..

[urosh]

There is this obscure VI database here https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/all-vi ... nts/newest
... and judging by quick check there seem to be something like 250+ new VIs released this year, out of 2900 in total in database.
However, if we exclude all the new or considerably updated VIs for last 9.5 months, than it does look like dying market.

[tony10000]

There is this obscure VI database here https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/all-vi ... nts/newest
... and judging by quick check there seem to be something like 250+ new VIs released this year, out of 2900 in total in database.
However, if we exclude all the new or considerably updated VIs for last 9.5 months, than it does look like dying market.

I keep an eye on the ADSR for synths. Not a lot of new stuff there either. It is interesting that Vaporizer 2 is being sold at a deep discount. Isn't that a pretty new synth? (Correction: Not that new. It came out in 2019.)

Indicative of a dying market, for sure. It will be interesting to see how BF/CM looks this year.

[Rastkovic]

The point is not about that every soft synth should be huge, wide or supermassive. Phase plant, for example, has that super crystal glassy sound that hardware Moog can’t produce. But, a lot of softsynths sounds very similar and lack of liveliness. Everyone can make layers, but you have 2-3 hours maximum to fix your ideas and if synth sounds wrong, you will spend half of that time making sound design, not music

Ok, now things look different. Your use of the terms "thin", "unimpressive" and "oh my god that’s huge - feeling" was misleading to me. Never mind....

[PAK]

I disagree on the dawless bit. A PC capable of running a daw, that comes included with a basic controller purchase is well below a gaming PC in both costs and specs.

Hmm, it'd depend on what you're running. You're not wrong that you could reduce costs a fair bit if you don't care about a more powerful graphics card. My thought was that the majority aren't actually going for purpose built audio computers, but rather general purpose PC's where gaming still holds a prominent role, and where it might lead them into using audio apps, but where it wasn't the main reason for buying a PC..

Also kids are very PC literate. They're very active on sites like twitch and discord.

I'm not denying those you reference don't exist. But there's still a percentage for whom a PC is something you use to print documents with etc. They'll use computers in school, and they'll have laptops (though often limited Chromebooks etc) for homework. But the primary compute device is the phone, and they'll use consoles for gaming (which would also include things like Twitch etc). Things like virtual instruments, even if they're aware of them, aren't really on their radar because that's not how they use their devices.

BTW This doesn't mean kids, serious about music production, aren't using (and won't continue to use) computers! Of course that is true. I was attempting to speak more widely about those with a casual interest who could become more involved, but simply don't have the same exposure to computers due to the ways in which mobile devices have replaced a lot of those roles..