Laptop or Macbook? Always been a Desktop user, apple scares me

[BONES]

Oh my...Actually, the very much deserved hype about them was not about power. It was about power by watt.

Of course it was because that all it's got. The real question you need to ask though, is why does that matter? As a user, it matters because it should lead to longer battery life abut it doesn't, so it is utterly irrelevant.

What do you say about that? Doesn't it translate in real life use cases for you?

Of course it f**king doesn't. My current laptop has delivered around 24 hours on a full charge in some review tests, and it's only 1.56kg. Of course, you have to turn one of its screens off to achieve that but it still leaves the same number of screens as you get on every other laptop. No Mac comes close to that sort of battery life, let alone that number of displays. In the real world, I've never seen the battery below 50%, so for me it's utterly irrelevant. I have this laptop's replacement on order and it has a smaller battery. In reviews it delivers noticeably shorter battery life and I'm fine with that because I decide what I need, I don't let some trillion dollar company make those decisions for me.

[Jac459]

Of course it f**king doesn't.

Good for you man, you seems very happy.

[PieBerger]

Oh my...Actually, the very much deserved hype about them was not about power. It was about power by watt.

Of course it was because that all it's got. The real question you need to ask though, is why does that matter? As a user, it matters because it should lead to longer battery life abut it doesn't, so it is utterly irrelevant.

It matters to me, because my Air is completely silent 100% of the time and I can use it in the living room while my partner watches TV, for example. If I'm on my own, I can use open back headphones if I so choose, without fan noise disturbing me. This might not be important to you and that's fine, but it's still an, appreciable objective benefit of AS lower power consumption vs Intel/AMD, for other users, with different needs to your own (remember that other people exist in the world!).

When similarly efficient chips become available for Windows machines, and it really is when not if, I can assure you that the majority of users, yourself included will welcome their arrival, so why waste energy time arguing against them now?

[Jac459]

Something else you need to do…
In Finder preferences > Advanced:

Keep folders on top:
☑ In windows when sorting by name

Tried that, it is great, thanks !

[zerocrossing]

- all Mac in graphics industry

That had less to do with the hardware of a Mac and more to do with early graphics apps being Mac only. When I started in graphic design, it was all Mac, for sure, though my school used PCs because, by that time, there was almost parity between platforms. I’d routinely take the work done on a PC in class and work on it at home with my Mac. This was in the early 90s. Hell, some people were still using rubylith at that time.

Now there’s no reason to choose one over the other for any reason other than personal preference. I abandoned Mac for music and graphics a long time ago, though I still use an iPad/Pencil to do my concept art. People who say that Macs are better for something are just parroting things they heard said from marketing campaigns.

[__Karlo__]

I was using a 2012 Intel 13" MBP that I upgraded to 16mb RAM and ssd. Worked very nice. I considered upgrading to a laptop, but when I started comparing the prices of well spec'd machines.... the 14" Apple M1 MBP was actually cheaper! So I stuck with apple.

[BONES]

That's one area where Apple have definitely improved - their entry level pricing is far more competitive than it used to be. It's only if you have a specific spec you need that their limited offerings fall down. I was seriously considering a MB Air in 2009 but to get the spec I wanted, I'd have had to go up to a MB Pro and it made things too expensive, so I ended up with a Sony Vaio, which turned out to be the worst laptop purchase I've ever made. I lost nearly $600 on it but was just glad to be rid of it in the end.

- all Mac in graphics industry

Not any more. 10 years ago, definitely, but Apple priced themselves out of the market with the current MacPro and the last two places I've worked have switched over to PC. When you can buy a Z Series workstation form HP for $8k that is going to cost you more than $20k to match with a MacPro, it's pretty easy decision for the bean-counters.

But even the artists I work with, who were once 100% Mac users at home, are now much more evenly split, in that the old hands stick with what they know while the younger artists, who like to game and are trained in 3D animation, all have PCs at home now. As the old hands retire, the PC mix will only increase.

It matters to me, because my Air is completely silent 100% of the time and I can use it in the living room while my partner watches TV, for example.

That's an excellent example of what utter nonsense this is because you're breathing, which is going to be louder than the fans on any modern laptop. And what are you going to be doing while the TV is on that would require the fans to spin up at all? It's a great example of why it's totally irrelevant.

I'm also wondering what you did three years ago, when MacBooks all ran Intel processors? Was your laptop banned from the living room until you bought an M1 powered jobbie? I have to turn the TV up when I've got my desk fan blasting air into the side of my head but not when I switch my laptop on. In fact, not even when it's running flat-out rendering songs. Even then, I have to lean down and put my ear next to the device to hear the fans at all. And if I've got any hardware connected to the I/O device, then the noise coming out of my speakers is going to drown out the laptop fans anyway.

To be fair, my gaming laptop could get noisy but it was a cheap plastic jobbie and was running desktop CPUs, so it was a more than acceptable trade-off. i.e. I wouldn't pay one extra dollar for quieter fans.

Finally while the Airs may be fanless, the MB Pros definitely are not so for performance machines, you are going to have fan noise, no matter what you choose. Unless maybe you choose a liquid cooled machine like the Acer 2-in-1 I had a few years ago. Not great performance but totally silent.

If I'm on my own, I can use open back headphones if I so choose, without fan noise disturbing me. This might not be important to you and that's fine, but it's still an, appreciable objective benefit

No, it's not, it's made-up bullshit. All but one of the dozen or so laptops I've owned over the years has been quiet enough for fan noise to be undetectable. And not just undetectable to my ears, but not able to be picked up by my microphone when I've been recording vocals with the laptop in the booth with me. It will pick up the rumble of ducted air-conditioning but not my laptop fans. (The VO booths in my last job had air-con outlets in the ceilings and were useless for recording until they blocked the vents.)

for other users, with different needs to your own

Like what? As I've said before, if you lived and worked in an anechoic chamber, I'd see the point but we all live in the real world. The real world is noisy and laptop fans simply don't rate alongside all the other things that are going to f**k you around when you are recording with a mic, which is surely the most important time to be controlling the noise in your environment?

When similarly efficient chips become available for Windows machines, and it really is when not if, I can assure you that the majority of users, yourself included will welcome their arrival, so why waste energy time arguing against them now?

More bullshit. Fan noise is and will remain irrelevant to me, as it is for everyone else. I'll welcome faster, more powerful processors because it will make the slower ones cheaper, which will save me money. That's why I've stepped down to a Core i5 - 12th Gen CPUs are fast enough now that it's all I need for music. I'll still have a more powerful laptop around for more intensive tasks but for music, Core i5 is plenty.

[FapFilter]

i5 are great and probably the best choice for an intel chip inside a performance oriented laptop, though i'm not sure about the noise level (yet).
but probably much better than i7 or i9, which are great if you don't mind jet engines or vacuum cleaner background noise floors when doing more than just having the desktop idling around

[PieBerger]

That's one area where Apple have definitely improved - their entry level pricing is far more competitive than it used to be. It's only if you have a specific spec you need that their limited offerings fall down. I was seriously considering a MB Air in 2009 but to get the spec I wanted, I'd have had to go up to a MB Pro and it made things too expensive, so I ended up with a Sony Vaio, which turned out to be the worst laptop purchase I've ever made. I lost nearly $600 on it but was just glad to be rid of it in the end.

- all Mac in graphics industry

Not any more. 10 years ago, definitely, but Apple priced themselves out of the market with the current MacPro and the last two places I've worked have switched over to PC. When you can buy a Z Series workstation form HP for $8k that is going to cost you more than $20k to match with a MacPro, it's pretty easy decision for the bean-counters.

But even the artists I work with, who were once 100% Mac users at home, are now much more evenly split, in that the old hands stick with what they know while the younger artists, who like to game and are trained in 3D animation, all have PCs at home now. As the old hands retire, the PC mix will only increase.

It matters to me, because my Air is completely silent 100% of the time and I can use it in the living room while my partner watches TV, for example.

That's an excellent example of what utter nonsense this is because you're breathing, which is going to be louder than the fans on any modern laptop. And what are you going to be doing while the TV is on that would require the fans to spin up at all? It's a great example of why it's totally irrelevant.

I'm also wondering what you did three years ago, when MacBooks all ran Intel processors? Was your laptop banned from the living room until you bought an M1 powered jobbie? I have to turn the TV up when I've got my desk fan blasting air into the side of my head but not when I switch my laptop on. In fact, not even when it's running flat-out rendering songs. Even then, I have to lean down and put my ear next to the device to hear the fans at all. And if I've got any hardware connected to the I/O device, then the noise coming out of my speakers is going to drown out the laptop fans anyway.

To be fair, my gaming laptop could get noisy but it was a cheap plastic jobbie and was running desktop CPUs, so it was a more than acceptable trade-off. i.e. I wouldn't pay one extra dollar for quieter fans.

Finally while the Airs may be fanless, the MB Pros definitely are not so for performance machines, you are going to have fan noise, no matter what you choose. Unless maybe you choose a liquid cooled machine like the Acer 2-in-1 I had a few years ago. Not great performance but totally silent.

If I'm on my own, I can use open back headphones if I so choose, without fan noise disturbing me. This might not be important to you and that's fine, but it's still an, appreciable objective benefit

No, it's not, it's made-up bullshit. All but one of the dozen or so laptops I've owned over the years has been quiet enough for fan noise to be undetectable. And not just undetectable to my ears, but not able to be picked up by my microphone when I've been recording vocals with the laptop in the booth with me. It will pick up the rumble of ducted air-conditioning but not my laptop fans. (The VO booths in my last job had air-con outlets in the ceilings and were useless for recording until they blocked the vents.)

for other users, with different needs to your own

Like what? As I've said before, if you lived and worked in an anechoic chamber, I'd see the point but we all live in the real world. The real world is noisy and laptop fans simply don't rate alongside all the other things that are going to f**k you around when you are recording with a mic, which is surely the most important time to be controlling the noise in your environment?

When similarly efficient chips become available for Windows machines, and it really is when not if, I can assure you that the majority of users, yourself included will welcome their arrival, so why waste energy time arguing against them now?

More bullshit. Fan noise is and will remain irrelevant to me, as it is for everyone else. I'll welcome faster, more powerful processors because it will make the slower ones cheaper, which will save me money. That's why I've stepped down to a Core i5 - 12th Gen CPUs are fast enough now that it's all I need for music. I'll still have a more powerful laptop around for more intensive tasks but for music, Core i5 is plenty.

"No one else's experiences are valid, I am always right"

There you go, saved you a tonne of typing, you can just quote that anytime you need it in the future

[Jac459]

"No one else's experiences are valid, I am always right"

There you go, saved you a tonne of typing, you can just quote that anytime you need it in the future

I gave up too. The discussion could be interesting in theory but not this way...

[PieBerger]

"No one else's experiences are valid, I am always right"

There you go, saved you a tonne of typing, you can just quote that anytime you need it in the future

I gave up too. The discussion could be interesting in theory but not this way...

It's not even worth it to share personal experience, because if it's not the same as his it's pathetic/stupid/f*cking stupid/nonsense etc. I'm happy with my Air now and I will be happy when PCs laptops and desktops are available in the future with similarly efficient chips. My current desktop isn't so noisy but it does generate a lot of heat and it makes using it in the summer a bit of an issue, especially if 30C+ temperatures are going to become the norm in the UK.

[Jac459]

i5 are great and probably the best choice for an intel chip inside a performance oriented laptop, though i'm not sure about the noise level (yet).
but probably much better than i7 or i9, which are great if you don't mind jet engines or vacuum cleaner background noise floors when doing more than just having the desktop idling around

I think the mistake I did when buying a laptop pc was to take a gaming i7 with RTX GPU. The sound level of the fan was unbelievably high. Razer was having rave revues and indeed the build quality is even better than Apple. But the noise level is just too high. And the cpu was underclocked when on battery.

I think the new i5s are much much better now.

[chagzuki]

i5 are great and probably the best choice for an intel chip inside a performance oriented laptop, though i'm not sure about the noise level (yet).
but probably much better than i7 or i9, which are great if you don't mind jet engines or vacuum cleaner background noise floors when doing more than just having the desktop idling around

I think the mistake I did when buying a laptop pc was to take a gaming i7 with RTX GPU. The sound level of the fan was unbelievably high. Razer was having rave revues and indeed the build quality is even better than Apple.

What's the trackpad like on the Razer?

[Jac459]

What's the trackpad like on the Razer?

 

The trackpad itself was very good. Globally a pleasure to use.

I had one issue though during the life of the razer, the track pad left click started to be less responsive. Turns out the battery was starting to inflate. After I changed the battery everything came back normal.

But overall, really, the build quality of razer is awesome, the oled screen is still perfect after 3 years, with very small bezels. The design is still my favourite of all laptops (including apple).
If it was not for the thermals and overall performance I would have (very) happily kept it.

[FapFilter]

i5 are great and probably the best choice for an intel chip inside a performance oriented laptop, though i'm not sure about the noise level (yet).
but probably much better than i7 or i9, which are great if you don't mind jet engines or vacuum cleaner background noise floors when doing more than just having the desktop idling around

I think the mistake I did when buying a laptop pc was to take a gaming i7 with RTX GPU. The sound level of the fan was unbelievably high. Razer was having rave revues and indeed the build quality is even better than Apple. But the noise level is just too high. And the cpu was underclocked when on battery.

I think the new i5s are much much better now.

yes, even current " mid-range" CPUs are incredible fast for most stuff and actually the better choice in a laptop as they aren't stupid power hungry as the top of the line x86 ones are which are only optimized for raw maximum processing power, at the expense of sucking badly at power efficiency.
also, as you've realized: don't get a gaming GPU if you don't need it.

i made the same mistake when i bought my last Windows laptop in 2010: it was the highest specced i7 available, and Sony had a discount at the time when they were offering an option with a pretty capable gaming GPU for the same price as the one with integrated graphics.
at that time i thought that the GPU would only be active when actually needed, but as i don't game on PC was totally overkill and as a result made my system loud as f**k in no time even during light-ish tasks.
you're even having similar issues with Apple Silicon, though of course not as promounced, but unless you really need "incredible" graphics power (still weaker than dedicated high end nVidias though, but again, won't draw hundreds of Watts ), you're better off with a Pro for better thermals and battery life.
and of course safe a huge amount of money.
and the base M1/M2, etc already are incredible powerful too