Coming up: Yamaha Montage standalone VST

[fmr]

Yeah. I Guess i was a tiny bit to short on my wording there
I hope they do give us the option to buy it without the very expensive option but the answer they gave me makes me unsure if we will get it outside of buying a Montage M.

I have the New Roland Fantom as Vst (Zen Pro) + Korg Triton and would love to have a Motif + ANX or a Montage M in my vst folder too.

If you don't want to wait for a 'maybe', give Halion a try.
It's got FM, Spectral, Wavetable, Virtual Analog, and Granular synthesis.
It's also got a very comprehensive sampling system.
Halion also has features I use all the time, that appear to be missing in Montage after browsing the manual.

I know that some of the 35GB of content is from the Motif/Montage, but don't know how much as I don't have either one of those. It's got 3,700 presets and 15 instruments.
It's also got a 30 day trial version, to see if it does it for you. I'm a fan.
https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/

Already have it
Bought the Upgrade from Halion Sonic 3 to v7 as soon as it came out when i saw that it included the FM Engine

Used to own a Modx but I liked the Halion sounds more and it was easier to use in my daw and could do more because of it's different engines so i sold the modx.

That's really odd for me.
I own both halion 7 and modx, and while I agree that halion is way easier to use in a daw, the modx has way, wayyy better sounds than halion, at least in the acoustic sounds.
I mean, I just wrote something similar about the zenology vst vs fantom, but its also true for halion in this case. The acoustic sounds in the modx has way more depth and character than those in halion.

For instance, I don't think there's any strings or guitars preset in Halion that sounds as good as those in the following videos:




Theres some sort of edge,depth and mix-ready quality in the modx acoustic sounds, that honestly I can never feel in Halion.
I guess that what makes the difference, is that the modx sounds come ready with certain fxs and accurate eq, that is absent in halion.
If I could have all these modx sounds in one vst...that would be a total game changer for me.

If it's realistic acoustic sounds you're after, there are so many and so good in the third-party sample libraries available commercially (especially for Kontakt) that spending money in something like Fantom/Montage/whatever to get those sounds would be silly.

[tristan-]

Agreed. The tactile controls on the new M series looks incredible. Should be so much fun to manipulate and create on it.



Yet a plugin has its place, and if priced correctly (ie Omnisphere) this should also end up being a very profitable business to Yamaha and could be a staple in any respectable studio.

[D-Fusion]

Agreed. The tactile controls on the new M series looks incredible. Should be so much fun to manipulate and create on it.



Yet a plugin has its place, and if priced correctly (ie Omnisphere) this should also end up being a very profitable business to Yamaha and could be a staple in any respectable studio.

I agree
I thought it was a rep from Yamaha that said it won't be released outside of owning a Montage M but as i mentioned it was only a Yamaha distributor so i was a little to quick to post thinking it was a answer from Yamaha

Hope he is wrong and we will see it released for all

[Bippo]

Yeah. I Guess i was a tiny bit to short on my wording there
I hope they do give us the option to buy it without the very expensive option but the answer they gave me makes me unsure if we will get it outside of buying a Montage M.

I have the New Roland Fantom as Vst (Zen Pro) + Korg Triton and would love to have a Motif + ANX or a Montage M in my vst folder too.

If you don't want to wait for a 'maybe', give Halion a try.
It's got FM, Spectral, Wavetable, Virtual Analog, and Granular synthesis.
It's also got a very comprehensive sampling system.
Halion also has features I use all the time, that appear to be missing in Montage after browsing the manual.

I know that some of the 35GB of content is from the Motif/Montage, but don't know how much as I don't have either one of those. It's got 3,700 presets and 15 instruments.
It's also got a 30 day trial version, to see if it does it for you. I'm a fan.
https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/

Already have it
Bought the Upgrade from Halion Sonic 3 to v7 as soon as it came out when i saw that it included the FM Engine

Used to own a Modx but I liked the Halion sounds more and it was easier to use in my daw and could do more because of it's different engines so i sold the modx.

That's really odd for me.
I own both halion 7 and modx, and while I agree that halion is way easier to use in a daw, the modx has way, wayyy better sounds than halion, at least in the acoustic sounds.
I mean, I just wrote something similar about the zenology vst vs fantom, but its also true for halion in this case. The acoustic sounds in the modx has way more depth and character than those in halion.

For instance, I don't think there's any strings or guitars preset in Halion that sounds as good as those in the following videos:




Theres some sort of edge,depth and mix-ready quality in the modx acoustic sounds, that honestly I can never feel in Halion.
I guess that what makes the difference, is that the modx sounds come ready with certain fxs and accurate eq, that is absent in halion.
If I could have all these modx sounds in one vst...that would be a total game changer for me.

If it's realistic acoustic sounds you're after, there are so many and so good in the third-party sample libraries available commercially (especially for Kontakt) that spending money in something like Fantom/Montage/whatever to get those sounds would be silly.

Silly? Not at all.
Montage vst can be a single container that includes everything that you'll ever need. With kontakt you'll need to sacrifice hundreds of gigabytes from your hard disk, purchase many different libraries and get used to a different UI for each one and even then, you won't have a fluid mix of sounds on the go and will have to spend a lot on mixing. One of the greatest advantages of sticking to one workstation for all sounds is that they tend to sit together very well in the mix from the beginning because they have a certain character that is shared in the sound design process, with kontakt you are dealing with various 3rd party developers and each library is a world of its own.

[tristan-]

I agree
I thought it was a rep from Yamaha that said it won't be released outside of owning a Montage M but as i mentioned it was only a Yamaha distributor so i was a little to quick to post thinking it was a answer from Yamaha

Hope he is wrong and we will see it released for all

Sure. It's unknown, and if it will, it might also take time.
but its great to know that it is out there!

[Jim Roseberry]

Drove to Sweetwater Tuesday... to grab the Montage M8x.

While the cost certainly isn't inexpensive, for what you're getting (comparatively) it's not too bad.
The Nord Stage 4 (88 key) is $5700 (no discount).
Got the Montage M8x for $4250.

I used Montage for several years (played many gigs).
Actually got the Montage 8 and Montage 7.
Kept the 7 because it was lighter to cart to gigs.
Over time, I became less satisfied with several areas:
- Acoustic Piano (lack of weighted keys was part of this)
- Electric Piano
- Organs
- Analog type Synths

I went to Guitar Center to try a Nord Stage 3 (after seeing Toto and numerous other touring players using Nord). I'd been a workstation user for decades... so I fully expected to hate it.
Far to the contrary, the Stage 3 seemed an improvement in all the areas above.
To top it off... it was super easy to use.
Programmed our entire 4-hour show from nothing (never used a Nord)... in two days.
Played many gigs with the Stage 3... so I preordered the Stage 4 the day it was announced.
The Stage 4 is an improvement in many ways... but it's not been a super easy transition.
First, there's a bug in firmware versions above 1.06... which breaks Portamento in Synth engine 1.
I've reported this to Nord. They haven't bothered to respond (or fix) after several months.
The Stage 4 didn't come with many of the samples I had used in the Stage 3.
I had to manually sample my Stage 3... and load those samples into the Stage 4.
Though I have numerous software apps to aid in the process, it still took a fair bit of time.
Regarding Portamento, Nord chose to limit the range in the Stage 4 vs the Stage 3.
If you're playing something like the Intro for Turn Me Loose (Loverboy), with Portamento time maxed out... the 2-octave glide of the G5add9 chord is barely long enough.
When asked why the limited the length, Nord's response was that it was more in-line with vintage instruments. Never encountered this issue (lack of Portamento length) on any other instrument (current or vintage... analog or digital).
Forgive the side-track... but it's to point out that I'm starting to grow tired of the Stage 4's limitations/short-comings.

Two nights ago, Yamaha officially announced/released the Montage M8x.
It addresses pretty much all my gripes with the original Montage.
Editing (with the second screen) is vastly improved.
I like using numerous Mini Moog type sounds live.
Think of the bridge for Foreigner's Feels Like the First Time.
With the old Montage, I couldn't get the mono synth articulation exactly the way I wanted.
Portamento... and mono voice priority weren't quite right.
With the ANX engine, that's not a problem.
First thing I do with any new keyboard; tweak the acoustic piano to my liking.
Yamaha likes their acoustic pianos a bit "tubby" (to my ears).
The Vintage EQ is used to boost at ~350Hz.
Had to take out some 200Hz, boost the upper-mids and highs, take the Reverb off, and adjust the Damper Resonance.
After those tweaks, the CFX Piano sounds great (articulate)... and works in a Rock band context.
The Nord Stage 4 (88-key) has been my favorite keyboard action to date.
Kronos was a close second.
The keyboard in the Montage M8x is right up there with the Stage 4.
Weighted enough to play piano expressively... and quick enough to play fast synth lines.
Yamaha didn't mention "triple-sensor"... but keys trigger new notes without being fully released.
The feel of the wood keys is better than those on the Nord Stage 4 (plastic).
The poly aftertouch feels/works great. Best implementation I've experienced.
Second thing I do with any new keyboard; create a basic Mini Moog sawtooth lead sound.
If the keyboard can't do this convincingly, (for me) there's no point going further.
ANX engine handles this easily. Nice and fat, with plenty of parameters to shape/modulate.
Drawbar Organs aren't as simple to setup as the Nord Stage 4, but it's much improved.
You've got control over all the Drawbars... and the various Percussion/Noise sounds.
In this case, the faders are "reversed" acting as Drawbars.

The two things I don't like about the Montage M8x are the size and weight.
It's HUGE and weighs 61 pounds.
By comparison, the Stage 4 is ~40 pounds... and much smaller.

The promised Virtual Instrument will be a nice bonus.
You can run multiple instances (up to what your machine allows).

In a world full of advanced virtual-instruments, a workstation can be a hard-sell.
Would have been nice to have disk-streaming samples.
Would be nice to have more than 16-voice polyphony on the ANX engine.
Overall, the Montage M8x has a lot to offer... especially for those playing live.
Looking at it as a potential replacement for a Stage 4, the price isn't bad ($1500 less).

[fmr]

If it's realistic acoustic sounds you're after, there are so many and so good in the third-party sample libraries available commercially (especially for Kontakt) that spending money in something like Fantom/Montage/whatever to get those sounds would be silly.

Silly? Not at all.
Montage vst can be a single container that includes everything that you'll ever need. With kontakt you'll need to sacrifice hundreds of gigabytes from your hard disk, purchase many different libraries and get used to a different UI for each one and even then, you won't have a fluid mix of sounds on the go and will have to spend a lot on mixing. One of the greatest advantages of sticking to one workstation for all sounds is that they tend to sit together very well in the mix from the beginning because they have a certain character that is shared in the sound design process, with kontakt you are dealing with various 3rd party developers and each library is a world of its own.

Maybe. But what you present as flaws in Kontakt (or any other sample player engine) are advantages to me. You will NEVER have the kind of quality and diversity in Montage or any workstation you choose. After a while, you will be tired of the sounds, and wishing for something else. I witnessed this behavior many times.

[digitallysane]

The keyboard in the Montage M8x is right up there with the Stage 4.
Weighted enough to play piano expressively... and quick enough to play fast synth lines.
Yamaha didn't mention "triple-sensor"... but keys trigger new notes without being fully released.

From a Yamaha article:
"GEX keyboard does not use conventional key contacts, but electromagnetic induction. With this technology, each individual key position can be continuously scanned. In addition, the keyboard supports software updates, which enables the future development of further techniques and articulations beyond Polyphonic Aftertouch."

[Jim Roseberry]

The keyboard in the Montage M8x is right up there with the Stage 4.
Weighted enough to play piano expressively... and quick enough to play fast synth lines.
Yamaha didn't mention "triple-sensor"... but keys trigger new notes without being fully released.

From a Yamaha article:
"GEX keyboard does not use conventional key contacts, but electromagnetic induction. With this technology, each individual key position can be continuously scanned. In addition, the keyboard supports software updates, which enables the future development of further techniques and articulations beyond Polyphonic Aftertouch."

Thanks for the heads-up about the GEX keyboard.
Didn't know that...
I can say that it feels great.
The polyphonic aftertouch is responsive... with just the right sensitivity.

[Bippo]

If it's realistic acoustic sounds you're after, there are so many and so good in the third-party sample libraries available commercially (especially for Kontakt) that spending money in something like Fantom/Montage/whatever to get those sounds would be silly.

Silly? Not at all.
Montage vst can be a single container that includes everything that you'll ever need. With kontakt you'll need to sacrifice hundreds of gigabytes from your hard disk, purchase many different libraries and get used to a different UI for each one and even then, you won't have a fluid mix of sounds on the go and will have to spend a lot on mixing. One of the greatest advantages of sticking to one workstation for all sounds is that they tend to sit together very well in the mix from the beginning because they have a certain character that is shared in the sound design process, with kontakt you are dealing with various 3rd party developers and each library is a world of its own.

Maybe. But what you present as flaws in Kontakt (or any other sample player engine) are advantages to me. You will NEVER have the kind of quality and diversity in Montage or any workstation you choose. After a while, you will be tired of the sounds, and wishing for something else. I witnessed this behavior many times.

How can you get tired of sounds of acoustic instruments ?
The piano was invented hundreds of years ago and is still prominent in pop music.
Same goes for the violin, trumpet, harp...you get the idea.
Also, even synth sounds are relevant for decades.
All the roland's junos and jupiters are still relevant in 2023 as they were in the 80's.

Besides that, that montage has over a thousand of sounds, how many sounds do you need in a song?
As a composer I would rather have a limited array of sounds which are all high quality than having to waste time browsing through thousands of sounds which are all identical (or worse, are not satisfying enough).
Having some sort of limitation and boundaries is good, otherwise you could eventually waste time browsing through sounds instead of actually creating music.

[BBFG#]

Assuming it does but can't find any immediate answer on their page. Does it have Release Velocity?

[digitallysane]

Thanks for the heads-up about the GEX keyboard.
Didn't know that...
I can say that it feels great.
The polyphonic aftertouch is responsive... with just the right sensitivity.

The quote was from a Music Production Guide issue dedicated to the Montage M, you might want to download those here:
https://www.musicproductionguide.eu/EKG ... EKG_EN.pdf
https://www.musicproductionguide.eu/EKG ... NFG_EN.pdf

[felis]

Assuming it does but can't find any immediate answer on their page. Does it have Release Velocity?

No

That's assuming the midi implementation chart on the site is correct.
Seems odd - play a key - velocity. Press down on a key when bottomed - after touch or poly AT.
Release a key - release velocity.

Some of the most very basic things in the midi spec.
On the last page here: https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/o ... _dl_a0.pdf

[Aloysius]

It's a changer game

[tristan-]

The keyboard in the Montage M8x is right up there with the Stage 4.
Weighted enough to play piano expressively... and quick enough to play fast synth lines.
Yamaha didn't mention "triple-sensor"... but keys trigger new notes without being fully released.

From a Yamaha article:
"GEX keyboard does not use conventional key contacts, but electromagnetic induction. With this technology, each individual key position can be continuously scanned. In addition, the keyboard supports software updates, which enables the future development of further techniques and articulations beyond Polyphonic Aftertouch."

Thanks for the heads-up about the GEX keyboard.
Didn't know that...
I can say that it feels great.
The polyphonic aftertouch is responsive... with just the right sensitivity.

Thanks for the info on GEX! Is it graded? I wonder how it would stack against Yamaha's top action on the P-515 or Roland's PHA-50 on the Fantom and RD-2000. Or Fatar's TP-40/W/TP-400/Wood