Software vs Hardware

[CrystalWizard]

In 2025, virtual instruments sound so good that one doesn't even need to look at hardware.

Unless one prefers hands on bespoke interfaces,

There is 100% absolutely no more bespoke hands on interface than a good MIDI controller you have programmed to do exactly what you want it to and that's fits into your workflow

Well, there is no midi controller I know that has a one knob per function to match the soft synths I use. If you are very lucky you might get 16 knobs and 16 sliders....but that's unlikely, very expensive, and still doesn't cover everything.

For $159 you can get a Novation Launch Control XL that has 8 sliders, 16 buttons and 24 knobs.

You can get them at Amazon, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, Thomann and pretty much any music retailer

You can use the Novation Components software that comes with it (or use the online version) to set up very quickly and easily whatever MIDI Channel and CC you want and have 8 pages/banks worth of all those knobs and you can control the pages/banks via external MIDI and even sequence the changes if you want

And you can very easily set up unique USB device IDs for them and your computer can see up to 8 of them if you choose

It's a very simple, very easy, very low cost rock solid system

I've owned several Novation Remotes. I feel that sucks compared to using a well designed synth. You can never really develop any muscle memory because software is all so different. Look at Massive X. It would be a nightmare trying to map the controls. I'd rather just use my trackball with a UI.

In particular for live performance, one control per one function that never changes. With a midi controller (i also have used Novation Remote) the best i could do was use a template with 8 synths, 8 layouts but it was never as intuitive/muscle memorized as my hardware. I did both for many years.

[rod_zero]

In 2025, virtual instruments sound so good that one doesn't even need to look at hardware.

Unless one prefers hands on bespoke interfaces,

There is 100% absolutely no more bespoke hands on interface than a good MIDI controller you have programmed to do exactly what you want it to and that's fits into your workflow

Every hardware synth you buy doesn't have a bespoke interface created to serve your needs, it has a mass produced interface built to make it easier and cheaper to manufacture

With hardware you are forced to use whatever control surface they give you, and in 2025 if your synth has patch memory and/or can be controlled and programmed remotely via MIDI all of those knobs and faders are just sending digital data anyway to a CPU. It's not like if you turn the knob for filter cutoff that you are actually turning the potentiometer that increases resistance in the audio path filter circuit

So why not just buy a good controller(s) that have lots of knobs, faders, and buttons and make your own?

I prefer software all the time but this is the worst take ever, MIDI controllers suck for controlling synths. There isn't a single MIDI controller with enough knobs and faders for controlling a synth.

look at roland system 8, Matrixbrute, polybrute, or other synths with a huge number of knobs, no MIDI controller can come close to their immediacy and ease of use.

So i prefer software that works better with a mouse, the dream would be a system like the roland plugouts with the system 8 but more open to other developers and better plugins. But the current market of MIDI controllers is a joke and has always been since they started making them for use with a DAW/Plugins.

[IvyBirds]

In 2025, virtual instruments sound so good that one doesn't even need to look at hardware.

Unless one prefers hands on bespoke interfaces,

There is 100% absolutely no more bespoke hands on interface than a good MIDI controller you have programmed to do exactly what you want it to and that's fits into your workflow

Every hardware synth you buy doesn't have a bespoke interface created to serve your needs, it has a mass produced interface built to make it easier and cheaper to manufacture

With hardware you are forced to use whatever control surface they give you, and in 2025 if your synth has patch memory and/or can be controlled and programmed remotely via MIDI all of those knobs and faders are just sending digital data anyway to a CPU. It's not like if you turn the knob for filter cutoff that you are actually turning the potentiometer that increases resistance in the audio path filter circuit

So why not just buy a good controller(s) that have lots of knobs, faders, and buttons and make your own?

I prefer software all the time but this is the worst take ever, MIDI controllers suck for controlling synths. There isn't a single MIDI controller with enough knobs and faders for controlling a synth.

look at roland system 8, Matrixbrute, polybrute, or other synths with a huge number of knobs, no MIDI controller can come close to their immediacy and ease of use.

So i prefer software that works better with a mouse, the dream would be a system like the roland plugouts with the system 8 but more open to other developers and better plugins. But the current market of MIDI controllers is a joke and has always been since they started making them for use with a DAW/Plugins.

Wow that has to be the worst take I have ever seen

My system as I have explained has more knobs and faders than any hardware instrument I have ever seen, and does it in less space so it can sit on my desk

I have on each workstation 64 programmable buttons, 32 faders, and 96 knobs

I have never seen a hardware synth with 192 physical control, 128 of then being knobs and faders

Roland System 8? I had one. It has 51 knobs, and I have 96. It has 14 faders guess what I have 32

The System 8 however is what gave me the idea that became the basis for my workflow. The system 8 is literally a MIDI controller that is running plugins run by an internal CPU. As you switch from internal plugin to internal plugin you use the same knobs and faders for the same things, and these are a different layout than what was on the original hardware

The worst take in the history of KVR has to be yours as you are telling someone who owned a System 8 and basically expanded the idea by having even more controls more knobs and more faders as somehow wrong because having more knobs and faders is somehow not as good as having less when the idea is to have more or something

As for Matrixbrute, that has 50 knobs, (again I have 96) and 15 faders (for those playing at home I have 32 faders)

Polybrute has 52 knobs (I have 96) and 15 faders (I have 32 faders)

So shall I take a giant step backwards and have roughly half the controls I have now and spend thousands more for the privilege?

You said

I prefer software that works better with a mouse, the dream would be a system like the roland plugouts with the system 8 but more open to other developers and better plugins. But the current market of MIDI controllers is a joke and has always been since they started making them for use with a DAW/Plugins.

Guess what you can have that today. Why buy an expensive computer inside of a MIDI controller when you already have a Computer than can run circles around it, and run all the software you want

For $159 you can buy a single LaunchControlnXL and get 8 faders and 24 knobs and have the ability to have 8 pages of programs for them. You can simply tap "user" and then one of 8 buttons to flip between the 8 pages. Use the System 8 as your guide and program the controls it has

Better yet spend $318 and get two. Then you will have be able to recreate pretty much exactly all of the physical control on the System 8 without having to do any page flipping. You will have three less knobs but you will have 2 more faders

Or get four. From my experience four seems to the ideal number. It will cost $636 and you will have double the capacity of a System 8 and it will take less space on your desk

[rod_zero]

In 2025, virtual instruments sound so good that one doesn't even need to look at hardware.

Unless one prefers hands on bespoke interfaces,

There is 100% absolutely no more bespoke hands on interface than a good MIDI controller you have programmed to do exactly what you want it to and that's fits into your workflow

Every hardware synth you buy doesn't have a bespoke interface created to serve your needs, it has a mass produced interface built to make it easier and cheaper to manufacture

With hardware you are forced to use whatever control surface they give you, and in 2025 if your synth has patch memory and/or can be controlled and programmed remotely via MIDI all of those knobs and faders are just sending digital data anyway to a CPU. It's not like if you turn the knob for filter cutoff that you are actually turning the potentiometer that increases resistance in the audio path filter circuit

So why not just buy a good controller(s) that have lots of knobs, faders, and buttons and make your own?

I prefer software all the time but this is the worst take ever, MIDI controllers suck for controlling synths. There isn't a single MIDI controller with enough knobs and faders for controlling a synth.

look at roland system 8, Matrixbrute, polybrute, or other synths with a huge number of knobs, no MIDI controller can come close to their immediacy and ease of use.

So i prefer software that works better with a mouse, the dream would be a system like the roland plugouts with the system 8 but more open to other developers and better plugins. But the current market of MIDI controllers is a joke and has always been since they started making them for use with a DAW/Plugins.

Wow that has to be the worst take I have ever seen

My system as I have explained has more knobs and faders than any hardware instrument I have ever seen, and does it in less space so it can sit on my desk

I have on each workstation 64 programmable buttons, 32 faders, and 96 knobs

I have never seen a hardware synth with 192 physical control, 128 of then being knobs and faders

Roland System 8? I had one. It has 51 knobs, and I have 96. It has 14 faders guess what I have 32

The System 8 however is what gave me the idea that became the basis for my workflow. The system 8 is literally a MIDI controller that is running plugins run by an internal CPU. As you switch from internal plugin to internal plugin you use the same knobs and faders for the same things, and these are a different layout than what was on the original hardware

The worst take in the history of KVR has to be yours as you are telling someone who owned a System 8 and basically expanded the idea by having even more controls more knobs and more faders as somehow wrong because having more knobs and faders is somehow not as good as having less when the idea is to have more or something

As for Matrixbrute, that has 50 knobs, (again I have 96) and 15 faders (for those playing at home I have 32 faders)

Polybrute has 52 knobs (I have 96) and 15 faders (I have 32 faders)

So shall I take a giant step backwards and have roughly half the controls I have now and spend thousands more for the privilege?

You said

I prefer software that works better with a mouse, the dream would be a system like the roland plugouts with the system 8 but more open to other developers and better plugins. But the current market of MIDI controllers is a joke and has always been since they started making them for use with a DAW/Plugins.

Guess what you can have that today. Why buy an expensive computer inside of a MIDI controller when you already have a Computer than can run circles around it, and run all the software you want

For $159 you can buy a single LaunchControlnXL and get 8 faders and 24 knobs and have the ability to have 8 pages of programs for them. You can simply tap "user" and then one of 8 buttons to flip between the 8 pages. Use the System 8 as your guide and program the controls it has

Better yet spend $318 and get two. Then you will have be able to recreate pretty much exactly all of the physical control on the System 8 without having to do any page flipping. You will have three less knobs but you will have 2 more faders

Or get four. From my experience four seems to the ideal number. It will cost $636 and you will have double the capacity of a System 8 and it will take less space on your desk

All that shit doesn't look like a synth, it requires one more step for my brain to make sense of it and then using stickers or sharpies looks cheap and cringe as hell.

I can't even imagine the eye sore and horrible ergonomics.

[Gam456]

I have never seen a hardware synth with 192 physical control, 128 of then being knobs and faders

I can't barely remember what my 51 knobs, 8 faders and 61 switch does on 1 synth.
Why on earth should we need more ?
Tell me why ?

[IvyBirds]

All that shit doesn't look like a synth, it requires one more step for my brain to make sense of it and then using stickers or sharpies looks cheap and cringe as hell.

I can't even imagine the eye sore and horrible ergonomics.

And yet I don't have a sticker or use a sharpie on any of them

As far as it looking like a synth, tell me what synth has 96 knobs and 32 faders and that fits on my desk? I would love to know

And sitting on my desk is the key, it's the ultimate ergonomic setup and again is the advantage of having multiple smaller controllers you can put into whatever arrangement you want as opposed to one giant Behemoth of a synth

And I am sincerely sorry you lack the cognitive abilities to learn muscle memory, I can't help you there

Not sure why you think it's so hard to remember which knob controls the filter cutoff on every synth, or which four control the ADSR controls

But apparently that's a bridge to far for you and I am truly sorry for that

[IvyBirds]

I have never seen a hardware synth with 192 physical control, 128 of then being knobs and faders

I can't barely remember what my 51 knobs, 8 faders and 61 switch does on 1 synth.
Why on earth should we need more ?
Tell me why ?

Maybe you don't and if you don't need or want more than that, it's simple don't get them

That's the beauty of basically having a "modular" system made up of inexpensive blocks of controllers that have 8 faders and 24 knobs, need more than that, get another one and have 16 and 48, need more than that get another and so on

The beauty of this is that it can be setup to be universal and control multiple synths. Polybrute has a great control surface but it's a huge physical synth that won't fit in my desk and doesn't translate to other Synths

So the question isn't why do you need more than 51 controls, it's why do you want to invest that amount of space and cash for just one synth?

[rod_zero]

Not sure why you think it's so hard to remember which knob controls the filter cutoff on every synth, or which four control the ADSR controls

But apparently that's a bridge to far for you and I am truly sorry for that

That's what a hw synth, or in the hypothetical case a controller designed to look like a synth, does well: the control is just there, always, most times labeled and you create muscle memory with time.

Yeah, I can map the same knob in a Novation Sl, Push, or Maschine to filter cutoff, and it kind of works for the first 8 controls but the moment you start changing pages I lose the intuitiveness of physical controls.

The knob boxes over the years have been tried, the behringer one, the faderfox, the midi twister, the remote Sl, and I have a launchcontrol XL (which I use as a mixer since that's what it looks like), and they simply don't work for me cause I lose the layer where the controls are organized in a logical way.

I do think a kind of universal synth midi controller could be done, but put it along a keyboard and make the layout make sense.

[Ah_Dziz]

I've got zero interest in the majority of hardware outside of live performance. Even most good hardware synths have a form of macro control so you don't have to worry about fiddling with menus and shift functions while performing. When using soft synths I prefer mouse control since that was what they were designed for.
Basically if you're live music is so improvisational that your making your sounds from scratch as you perform, then go with whatever works for you. Otherwise, still just do what works, but softsynths give far more options than piles of hardware synths.

In a normal (playing songs you've already written) performance the difference between hardware synths and software synths is minimal provided you've prepared.

[vitocorleone123]

I've got zero interest in the majority of hardware outside of live performance. Even most good hardware synths have a form of macro control so you don't have to worry about fiddling with menus and shift functions while performing. When using soft synths I prefer mouse control since that was what they were designed for.
Basically if you're live music is so improvisational that your making your sounds from scratch as you perform, then go with whatever works for you. Otherwise, still just do what works, but softsynths give far more options than piles of hardware synths.

In a normal (playing songs you've already written) performance the difference between hardware synths and software synths is minimal provided you've prepared.

Hardware can make sounds software can’t (yet) and the other way around, too. Why limit yourself if you don’t want to?

[IvyBirds]

Not sure why you think it's so hard to remember which knob controls the filter cutoff on every synth, or which four control the ADSR controls

But apparently that's a bridge to far for you and I am truly sorry for that

That's what a hw synth, or in the hypothetical case a controller designed to look like a synth, does well: the control is just there, always, most times labeled and you create muscle memory with time.

Why does it have to "look like a synth" I am creating a Sound Design Workstation Computer that works with many different Synths

This is what it's modeled after

5022192182_2b42cdbe38_b.jpg

I have a 49 key controller in the middle of my desk and then I have a C shaped Computer Monitor Riser I got from Amazon like this one

Screenshot_20250302-194823.jpg

The two wings are on a pivot point I have them turned in more so it's sharper

My Computer monitor is in the middle. It's actually mounted to a VESA arm clamped to the back of my desk but it's pulled forward to be in the middle

Then I have two LaunchControl XLs on either side

All of that is wrapped around my keyboard controller. I have a trackball mouse next to my keyboard controller and the screens and 4 LaunchControl XLs are wrapped around that in a C shape

My computer keyboard is on a pull out drawer and my audio monitors are on two desktop stands on either side of the computer monitor and behind and slightly above the launch control XLs

I can literally sit comfortably for hours in my awesome desk chair and reaqch everything with no effort. It's the most ergonomic setup I have ever had

Why the hell would I want that to mimic a synth? In my 4 decades of home studios I have never had anything more ergonomic and I have two of them

[swilow11]

All that shit doesn't look like a synth, it requires one more step for my brain to make sense of it and then using stickers or sharpies looks cheap and cringe as hell.

I can't even imagine the eye sore and horrible ergonomics.

And yet I don't have a sticker or use a sharpie on any of them

As far as it looking like a synth, tell me what synth has 96 knobs and 32 faders and that fits on my desk? I would love to know

And sitting on my desk is the key, it's the ultimate ergonomic setup and again is the advantage of having multiple smaller controllers you can put into whatever arrangement you want as opposed to one giant Behemoth of a synth

And I am sincerely sorry you lack the cognitive abilities to learn muscle memory, I can't help you there

Not sure why you think it's so hard to remember which knob controls the filter cutoff on every synth, or which four control the ADSR controls

But apparently that's a bridge to far for you and I am truly sorry for that

Changing rhe subject a bit, your setup sounds interesting. Have you any photos for us to get jealous over?

[pdxindy]

My system as I have explained has more knobs and faders than any hardware instrument I have ever seen, and does it in less space so it can sit on my desk

I have a bunch of hardware synths... and between them, they have far more controls than your piddly 96.

Joking aside, the point of my hardware synths is that the interface is dedicated to that instrument. No midi controller ever works that well with a software instrument.

I've spent thousands of dollars on midi controllers and always, always end up back using mouse and keys for software. The mouse is literally 10 times faster than generic midi controllers for everything but playing.

I love using my favorite software synths. I also love my hardware. For pure workflow, nothing in software comes close to my Elektron Rytm.

[psycho45039]

Here's a picture my current setup.

I think you need more keyboards. (Nice!)

I've added more since that picture, lol!

[IvyBirds]

Changing rhe subject a bit, your setup sounds interesting. Have you any photos for us to get jealous over?

I don't have any on my phone, but I would be happy to take some, what would you like to see?