How much of a difference does a high-end audio interface really make?

[whyterabbyt]

This topic turns into a fight between musicians and mathematicians hahahah :):)

You think you need to be a mathematician to multiply three or four numbers together?

No wonder you're so confused.

Not interested to waste time discussing with non musicians a music related stuff...

Its okay, some of us musicians who can count without using our fingers are fine correcting your numerically illiterate bullshit.

[Ploki]

This topic turns into a fight between musicians and mathematicians hahahah :):)
It cross my mind to record a video in details and to export in real time,so to see the answer of calculating people and to ''prove'' my point,but don't have time and desire to continue a conversation,when one side ,self promoted ''experts'' continue not to understand a single word i am saying,even a simple thing, that fixed and float are different animals so on...
Could some calculator give an advise on something?
I am about to download Dolby Atmos Composer Essential (free version).
Do i need to waste my time with it or to stick with 24/48 stereo format....rhetoric question hahahah :):)
Every time the same,self announced specialists start a war with typical for their cast aggressive and insulting behavior (which is enough to me to understand what kind of people are on the other side),just to prove something,instead of discuss it and to expand their point of view...
Not interested to waste time discussing with non musicians a music related stuff...
Calculate and prove whatever you like,go even 8bit if you like and claim that this is the best studio format...the topic is interested,but turns into fight,for what...everybody is free to understand...or not ...whatever ...

It’s not a fight, it’s a discussion.
Between science and religion, as so many times over the course of history.

And as many many times over the course history, it’s been demonstrated in this thread that using logic and fact to counter convictions and belief is a fruitless endeavour.

I’m not a self announced specificalist, i have two degrees. A Master’s (in music composition no less) and (two) Bachelors (one in audio engineering), which makes me at least partially a certified specialist, on both music and audio

[stoopicus]

It’s not a fight, it’s a discussion.
Between science and religion, as so many times over the course of history.

And as many many times over the course history, it’s been demonstrated in this thread that using logic and fact to counter convictions and belief is a fruitless endeavour.

100%.

And even setting aside the rather esoteric discussion Ploki and i were having about audio rate, there's some facts here that are not controversial, they are simply true.

- fact: 24 bit sampling offers 144dB of dynamic range. This is simply a mathematical truth.
- fact: no mic/instrument preamp, and certainly no consumer grade preamp, has a noise floor that low. So even if there were more bits of sampling, the additional dynamic range would not be useful.
- fact: Internally in software, floats are represented as 32 bit values. This is true but that's simply the size of the IEEE-754 single precision floating point data type. And even it only has 24 bits of mantissa (including the sign bit).
- fact: commonly, 64 bit doubles are also used internally. 100% true, but it's not because of the additional *sampling* range offered. Rather, it's necessary to retain the full precision and range of the 32 bit floats across the many arithmetic operations done during DSP processing, and to provide the headroom needed for those calculations.

24 bit samples are fine.

[El°HYM]

I heard that 144dB is the exact dynamic range of a Cave.

[whyterabbyt]

whatever ...

Your unsolicted PM (with subject in all-cyrillic or whatever it is) has been deleted, unread. Dont PM me again.

[VELLTONE MUSIC]

whatever ...

Your unsolicted PM (with subject in all-cyrillic or whatever it is) has been deleted, unread. Dont PM me again.

hahaha kvr hero...if something scary you in the dark,it's not me...it's the wind...hahahah

[Sonic Illusions]

Settled with 24 bit. To avoid a neverending story

[whyterabbyt]

hahaha kvr hero...if something scary you in the dark,it's not me...it's the wind...hahahah

[VELLTONE MUSIC]

To avoid any other ridiculous 'discussions' like these will point few things, only for the newbies and open minded people, who are interested to listen high quality music...other guys from 24bit boys bend,you can listen R2-D2 beat box ...
1.To be able to reproduce,hear and enjoy higher quality audio stream, you need better driver and player as much as you need better headphones or speakers - by default driver is the software,which move data between devices and translating 'right' 0-1 into sound ...
I recommend Flexasio and AIMP,tested many and these are the best i found for free.
- - - Otherwise you won't be able to hear the difference,even if it's there - - -
2. The example in the previous page with the noise exported in 24 and 32 bit formats...are kidding me,it's the same data,you don't even mix complex high quality material,so how to have ANY DIFFERENCE and different audible result...???
3.I can hear it loud and clear - the dynamics is better,the details,everything...it's not my theory,i just hear it and the pleasure is what makes me share it here and then to suffer as saint Paul preaching in a ancient roman province hahahah. :):)
4.Ok,if you wish call me i deluded person,who believe in something imaginary,so be it...i shared my pleasure listening 32bit float..i am not educated enough to prove a theory and don't have time and interest to prove anything...
Specially to whyterabbyt:
Be nice from time to time,only side effect is the smile on the faces of other people

[whyterabbyt]

2. The example in the previous page with the noise exported in 24 and 32 bit formats..

Are you talking about the noise exports I did?

I mean I think Im the only person who has talked about doing noise exports in the past couple of pages, but I just want to be sure... you're talking about the ones I did to corroborate my comments about file sizes, yes? the screengrab of the file sizes of exports of noise at 24 bit and 32 bit word length?

I mean if you're not talking about my files, then who's files are you talking about?

.are kidding me,it's the same data

If you're talking about my files, no they werent.

Do you think the data in a raw audio file changes the file size?

you don't even mix complex high quality material

Do explain how 'mixing complex high quality material' changes file size.

,so how to have ANY DIFFERENCE and different audible result...???

Exactly what do 'different audible result' have to do with file sizes?

You're not claiming I was talking about anything other than file size are you?

[Ploki]

To avoid any other ridiculous 'discussions' like these will point few things, only for the newbies and open minded people, who are interested to listen high quality music...other guys from 24bit boys bend,you can listen R2-D2 beat box ...
1.To be able to reproduce,hear and enjoy higher quality audio stream, you need better driver and player as much as you need better headphones or speakers - by default driver is the software,which move data between devices and translating 'right' 0-1 into sound ...
I recommend Flexasio and AIMP,tested many and these are the best i found for free.
- - - Otherwise you won't be able to hear the difference,even if it's there - - -
2. The example in the previous page with the noise exported in 24 and 32 bit formats...are kidding me,it's the same data,you don't even mix complex high quality material,so how to have ANY DIFFERENCE and different audible result...???
3.I can hear it loud and clear - the dynamics is better,the details,everything...it's not my theory,i just hear it and the pleasure is what makes me share it here and then to suffer as saint Paul preaching in a ancient roman province hahahah. :):)
4.Ok,if you wish call me i deluded person,who believe in something imaginary,so be it...i shared my pleasure listening 32bit float..i am not educated enough to prove a theory and don't have time and interest to prove anything...
Specially to whyterabbyt:
Be nice from time to time,only side effect is the smile on the faces of other people

1. I have RME UFX+ feeding trio11 + dual 15" subs directly - no EQ, no passive monitoring control, no nada. Interface directly to Trio11. My acoustics cost me way more than my speakers. Residual noise in my studio is typically under 30dB, as I have stupidly (or not) insanely over-engineered air supply.

All that together lands me into about 90dB of dynamic range, about 10hz-40khz range, if I push my speakers to the max - they peak at 118dB and woofers peak at 120dB with the power i feed them.
I think i have a good enough system. In fact, big studios aside, most people have worse systems

2. he was trying to show you file sizes. noise = random data, and as such a perfect candidate for size estimate. It's in fact more raw data than any music.

3. No you don't.

4. No, you're not.

[stoopicus]

3.I can hear it loud and clear

No, you can't

Lets take a look at the specs of an audio interface that is almost assuredly far, far better than any you are likely to own - this is an RME, the UFX 188-channel:

Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): 115 dB RMS unweighted, 118 dBA
THD: < -110 dB, < 0.00032 %
THD+N: < -104 dB, < 0.00063 %

I just checked an SSL and it was ~120dB and I think they are actually lying/inflating.

The 4th gen Focusrites claim 122dB. I have strong doubts there too.

Even so, all of those fit well inside 24 bit sampling and still have a huge amount of unused dynamic headspace left. 32 bit would simply be 8 bits of unused headspace or (worse) noise.

Why don't you post your audio interface and let's have a look.

[whyterabbyt]

Why don't you post your audio interface and let's have a look.

C'mon man, you're just not using the right drivers, if you use a universal ASIO wrapper around Portaudio wrapping around Directsound, then you'll probably get ooh, hundreds of parsecs more decibels than the stock drivers can give you. Here's the proof...

To be able to reproduce,hear and enjoy higher quality audio stream, you need better driver and player as much as you need better headphones or speakers - by default driver is the software,which move data between devices and translating 'right' 0-1 into sound ...
I recommend Flexasio

[stoopicus]

Why don't you post your audio interface and let's have a look.

C'mon man, you're just not using the right drivers, if you use a universal ASIO wrapper around Portaudio wrapping around Directsound, then you'll probably get ooh, hundreds of parsecs more decibels than the stock drivers can give you. Here's the proof...

To be able to reproduce,hear and enjoy higher quality audio stream, you need better driver and player as much as you need better headphones or speakers - by default driver is the software,which move data between devices and translating 'right' 0-1 into sound ...
I recommend Flexasio

Oh I mean I don't actually *read* his posts, of course. Just had to reply to the obvious fart-huffing that jumped out at me there.

[SybilSztorm]

What's funny is I could argue some of the best music ever made (some still holding the title to this day) were actually mainly recorded at 11 bits/22khz. But what do I know, I let people strive for their highest standard of transparency.