Valhalla FutureVerb

[jamcat]

For what you claim you need you would need to have a reverb with 80 inputs and then be able to place those 80 inputs with precision in 3D space inside of that room

There are several, (and I've mentioned all of them in this thread already): VSL MIR, Inspirata, Virtual Sound Stage, and Audio Modeling's own Ambiente, which is built into every SWAM instrument, as well as a standalone VST plugin. All instances communicate with each other.

[hey212]

IMO this is on a completely different level than anything Valhalla have done to date. The reverb section sounds fantastic on its own, but the echo section running into it adds an amazing kind of halo.

Thank you so much for pointing that out!

I totally missed that part when I tried it. For some reason I understood "echo" as "delay" and not even tried to add some. Two basic reasons of course. Supermassive, that has delay+reverb. And classic echo pedals. Moreover, there is a big "delay" button... (that stands for "reverb delay"...)

Indeed, when you add the echo reverb part, it becomes really, really massive and complex sounding.

OK, this one is the most impressive that Valhalla has done so far.

Glad it helped! Ya the echo section can do audible delay repeats, but it can also do much more subtle, reverby stuff.

The only critique I have so far is that the routing/mixing is unintuitive, even after reading the manual. But the weird routing allows for some cool tricks! For example, if you have it set to run echo -> rev, even with the echo level at 0%, the feedback, spread, and drive will still feed into the reverb, and that can also sound amazing! The drive is quite smooth.

If you want to completely bypass the echo section, you have to set the routing to rev -> echo, and then when you set the echo level to 0%, the feedback, spread, and drive will do nothing.

[Zoopy]

I love valhalla and think this reverb sounds good but, I own all their others and am having a hard time justifying picking this one up too. I've been comparing the algos and while it does sound different, and maybe even 'better', I am still not sure. I will make a preset on valhallaroom from scratch and be like 'yea that sounds good' and then swap to Futureverb and be like 'yea that sounds good too'. Maybe I'm just used to ValhallaRoom and VintageVerb after all these years.

A big bummer about this forum is I'll see a thread for a product that is new and exciting and see like 5 pages of threads and be like 'aw shit it must be good' but then its always just ivy or jamcat or some other f**king person who doesn't ever actually make music uselessly ranting for pages and pages, completely derailing the thread and distracting from ppl actually sharing information/experiences about the plugin. I wish as a community we could stop feeding these trolls, maybe just ask yourself if replying to any of these posts is actually contributing to the discussion about the plugin. I highly recommend the block feature, it really cleans up many threads. Do you really need to argue with someone saying they are placing 80 swam instruments in a virtual room and they need the virtual room dimensions? this person's music is almost certainly ignorable

[jamcat]

If you think an 80-piece orchestra is "ignorable" that just says something about you. But I could drop the bass trombone and add a violin glissando riser to try to make it more your speed.

[IvyBirds]

For what you claim you need you would need to have a reverb with 80 inputs and then be able to place those 80 inputs with precision in 3D space inside of that room

There are several, (and I've mentioned all of them in this thread already): VSL MIR, Inspirata, Virtual Sound Stage, and Audio Modeling's own Ambiente, which is built into every SWAM instrument, as well as a standalone VST plugin. All instances communicate with each other.

Sure but you are not using 80 instruments at a time with any of those all at the same time in the same room

[noiseresearch]

Six pages of off-topic discussion? Lame.
This plugin looks interesting. Hope Valhalla fixed the (plugin framework) issues with automation of parameters. However, I definitely give this one a try.

[vitocorleone123]

This is, without a doubt, to my ears, the best-sounding Valhalla reverb. I've long since deleted the others, as I have reverbs I like better. This one is now one of the top reverbs on the market.

I don't care about "placement in a room" gimmicks - I want music and even maybe some soul or some magic. So far, this delivers for me. For only $50.

And I'm picky about my reverbs.

[jamcat]

For what you claim you need you would need to have a reverb with 80 inputs and then be able to place those 80 inputs with precision in 3D space inside of that room

There are several, (and I've mentioned all of them in this thread already): VSL MIR, Inspirata, Virtual Sound Stage, and Audio Modeling's own Ambiente, which is built into every SWAM instrument, as well as a standalone VST plugin. All instances communicate with each other.

Sure but you are not using 80 instruments at a time with any of those all at the same time in the same room

Well, after I got SWAM String Sections, I don't use quite as many because a single string section divisi could have 4, 5, or 6 violins, so it reduces the number of instances you need for strings. It also has anti-phasing built in. But before String Sections and Ambiente, yes, you could certainly get up to 80 players or more with a full orchestra. Many people, myself included, were doing that with SWAM Solo instruments and Virtual Sound Stage. A typical modern symphonic orchestra has 50 to 60 string players alone, and we had to create a solo instance for each player with SWAM Solo Strings, with an instance of Virtual Sound Stage on each. Add 10 brass and 10 woodwind instruments, and you have 80 separate players, each with their own VSS2 instance, and that's before adding percussion. And then the accompanying reverb (tail component) dimensions need to precisely match the dimensions of the VSS2 room.

Here's one such arrangement (not mine).

[miloszz]

I will make a preset on valhallaroom from scratch and be like 'yea that sounds good' and then swap to Futureverb and be like 'yea that sounds good too'. Maybe I'm just used to ValhallaRoom and VintageVerb after all these years.

I think this is the nature of reverb to some extent.

In Lexicon homage territory I've got UAD's 224, Tai Chi Reverb, VintageVerb, LX480. Could really throw a dart blind - one may sound better than the others at certain settings on certain material but the choice is never going to be a difference-maker about something I'm doing being great or crap. And the Oto BAM sounds best of all but that's just as likely because I get to tweak it by hand and that feeds me a microdose of happy brain chemicals.

I installed FutureVerb earlier and it sounds really good - the reverb into echo seems to be a differentiator compared to my other reverbs. For a clean reverb it's still pretty weird.

[noiseresearch]

@jamcat (and others) How about a new thread? Discuss your idea of a good reverb there. I think it's a bit disrespectful regarding the product and developer to derail this thread that much.

[skarvika]

I've never been all that impressed with Valhalla's offerings. Always figured I was all alone in that opinion.

Valhalla is good for, as has been mentioned, value for money, but one point I think is being left out is that their plugins are incredibly CPU efficient. An instance of FutureVerb takes just 2% of my CPU. I could throw one on every track if I chose without worrying too much. I've used (and quickly uninstalled) some reverb plugins in the past that have ate up 20%, 30% or even more for one instance. This is the big draw of Valhalla for me.

That being said, I like FutureVerb, but not enough to buy right now. I like the convenience of doing reverb and delay in one plugin, being able to change the order is nice and it definitely does sound good, but not being able to set predelay feels like a big oversight. Being able to do a dual delay would be a welcome feature as well.

And this is just a general gripe, but I'd really like to see input/output settings being implemented on Valhalla's plugins. Their default output volume is pretty quiet comparatively, and I've had to throw kHs Gain on in some cases to keep their reverbs from being buried in the mix.

[hey212]

There is predelay actually, if you set the echo to Modern mode, it's a clean predelay.

[rod_zero]

the usual suspects making it all about how they don't like stuff they aren't going to buy and takes 5 pages xD

[noiseresearch]

I've tested Valhalla FutureVerb for about an hour – mainly with synth (pads, plucks) and various drum sounds.

The sound is really good – sometimes outstanding. Having a reverb and a delay with different algos in one plugin is great. The reverb algos are all pleasant, but I do not like all echo algos (I can't pinpoint why; maybe a different sound source would be needed). Being able to change the order is a well-chosen design decision. That said, one might prefer having two different plugins to create a similar effect (or even a better one?).

Up to this point I still considered buying Valhalla FutureVerb but then I tested the automation of parameters and MIDI mapping: unfortunately, Valhalla DSP still has not solved the issues with parameter automation and other minor stuff. Bugs that have been consistently present for years. I own five plugins by Valhalla DSP and do not mind there is no fix for "old" plugins (backward compatibility), but I was really hoping a new plugin would not be released with this bug again. This bug is the main reason why I will not consider purchasing Valhalla FutureVerb anymore.

[Kai Enaki]

the usual suspects making it all about how they don't like stuff they aren't going to buy and takes 5 pages xD

I'm willing to give them some slack. It's hard to read a room when you have a 80 man orchestra in front of you.