Sytrus vs Rhino [6 years dead thread bumped; go to page 21]

[x_bruce]

In all fairness to the ImageLine guys I'd prefer to go off thread as I don't want to start any further divisions.

I do like both synths but often think Rhino doesn't get it's due. Please feel free to email me at x_bruce@yahoo.com and I'll elaborate.

At the end of the day, both have demos and they are both worth trying, but I say this about any synths, let alone those in competition.

[Stupid American Pig]

lol!

Rhino does synthesis too. It's not a sample playback synth, those samples are interpolated to waveforms. Rhino has one of the most comprehensive synth engines I've seen, where you two really differ is on the implementation of FM which is stronger in Sytrus because you intentionally went that direction. I agree with you.

I think both synths belong in any well developed synth library. Maybe when you see the review (and btw, I've got a Sytrus review up here too) you'll accept I take your creation seriously.

Did you read the part about me liking and recommending Sytrus?

x_bruce- dont you know that KVR forum rules dictate that you cant simultaneously like and critique a synths features- especially when the synth in question is VS another synth. You have further violated forum rules by liking and using both synths. You MUST PICK A SIDE AND ARGUE IT TO THE DEATH!!!!

[x_bruce]

I'm a rebel, that's what it is...

[tony tony chopper]

Rhino does synthesis too.

Of course it does.

And it's not to flame, I only meant that its soundbanks are mostly sample-based. It's a direction that preset makers chose to follow. With its pro's & con's.

of FM which is stronger in Sytrus because you intentionally went that direction. I agree with you.

No, what's stronger in Sytrus is the feature set to get the most out of basic oscillators (waveform editor, tools to work on harmonics, the many envelopes & mapping on about everything, the fact that ALL levels are bipolar, and of course the rich unison).
That's if you want to compare the feature set of both, Sytrus doesn't support sample banks, but offers more routing options in its matrix, at least 1 more synthesis method, more envelopes on more features, a (now) better harmonics editor, fewer effects but more tweakable to achieve similar results. But I'm ready to argue about the feature set.

[gbles]

where you two really differ is on the implementation of FM which is stronger in Sytrus

How do they differ in their FM implementation? I played around with the Rhino demo for some time before I eventually went with Sytrus, which is probably around 5-6 months ago now. At that time it seemed like anything FM related was the same. The differences that I spotted were elsewhere.

For the record, I liked both and evaluated both for some time before buying Sytrus.

[wrench45us]

posting the same image twice has sold me

i love little gray boxes and if that's the actual size, well sign me up

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=music

[x_bruce]

Hey Gol,

I give you your due for creating something I couldn't. I give Rhino 2 it's due as well. How can you say Rhino is sample based? It's like saying CUBE is sample based, or Absynth 3.

Just because samples can be converted into waveforms doesn't make them a sample playback device. I don't care what synth we are talking about. I think you are overgeneralizing as Rhino 2 can do FM only.

When someone says sample based, I, and almost everyone else I know, thinks a synth like EASTWEST's Vapor. It uses multisamples in a sample playback engine. That is a sample based synth, and a great one btw.

When someone discusses Cameleon CA5000 I consider it an additive synth with resynthesis. I know it to be true as when I play it and edit the spectral and partials they change the sound. Yet CA5000 uses some great samples. Do you consider this a sample playback synth? I'm not fighting with you, just trying to see what you consider sample based versus what you seem to say, which is Sytrus = pure waveforms as no sample data was used/converted/resampled/granulated.

I'd really prefer to have a conversation than a debate. It might help me to pay more attention you your arguments on Sytrus' superiority.

I know you don't like my comparing Rhino and Styrus but that was the point of the thread. It's not an attack, and again, you aren't acknowledging I like your synth. Chill out a bit. Read my review here and see if you think I don't get what your synth does. It would be a lot more constructive to discuss this as gentlemen than advisaries.

[tony tony chopper]

how can you say Rhino is sample based?

I didn't. I wrote that most of its *presets* were sample-based. Maybe the fact it loads sample banks doesn't motivate people to use it as a synthesizer.


I also pointed that out, because some don't seem to realize the difference. Rhino can load sample banks, that's indeed one feature that's not in Sytrus. But if someone comes up with 'Rhino can do vocals', because he bumped on some presets with vocals in them, then no, Rhino can't *do* vocals (nor can Sytrus for that matter), but can play them back (as a sampler).

So I'd gladly compare synthesis feature of both, but only that, because Sytrus is only a synthesizer. So if someone is looking for a synthesizer, I claim that Sytrus is more featured and I can back it up, and if he's looking for a hybrid synth/sampler, then Sytrus is not what he's looking for.

[tony tony chopper]

Do you consider this a sample playback synth?

No, because an additive synthesizer that resynthesizes samples allows you to tweak a lot of them.

Rhino plays samples, and allows FM on them. But let's agree that FM doesn't work well with arbitrary samples (unless you're looking for noise), and even for barely more than just sinewaves (and a small set of variations of sines).
It (I guess) also supports AM on samples, and I'd be interested to hear something great out of that.
Other than that, it doesn't resynthesize samples, so you can just play them back, or route them through effects, just like a sampler would do.

[jens]

how can you say Rhino is sample based?

I didn't. I wrote that most of its *presets* were sample-based. Maybe the fact it loads sample banks doesn't motivate people to use it as a synthesizer.


I also pointed that out, because some don't seem to realize the difference. Rhino can load sample banks, that's indeed one feature that's not in Sytrus. But if someone comes up with 'Rhino can do vocals', because he bumped on some presets with vocals in them, then no, Rhino can't *do* vocals (nor can Sytrus for that matter), but can play them back (as a sampler).

So I'd gladly compare synthesis feature of both, but only that, because Sytrus is only a synthesizer. So if someone is looking for a synthesizer, I claim that Sytrus is more featured and I can back it up, and if he's looking for a hybrid synth/sampler, then Sytrus is not what he's looking for.

*sigh* once again:

4th March 2003 - BigTick Rhino V1.0 release

1st August 2004 - BigTick V2.0 released

(in between came several V1.x versions)


Up to V2.0 Rhino wasn't able to load any samples at all!!!

[shamann]

And the sample import in Rhino, it's all resynthesis, isn't it? Because you can edit up to 64 partials for every imported wav file. And once imported, you can save it as an additive settings file. That doesn't sound like sample playback to me.

[jens]

And the sample import in Rhino, it's all resynthesis, isn't it?

nope, it's not - you're confusing it with the single-cycle waveform-analysis (and additive recreation) that's been there since v1.07 (end of June 2003)

[tony tony chopper]

Up to V2.0 Rhino wasn't able to load any samples at all

..which was even worse: it wasn't partly a sampler but a rompler back then.

Now back to my point, if you want to compare the *synthesis* feature set, I'll gladly debate.

[jens]

..which was even worse: it wasn't partly a sampler but a rompler back then.

you must either be joking, or you haven't got a clue what you are talking about or you are a dirty liar...
(or any mixture of it)

anyway: that's easily and easily provable amongst the most ridiculous bullshit I've ever read on kvr!

Well done!

[jens]

b.t.w.: f**k the Sytrus group-buy - I've got more than enough synths...