Not a bad idea!liars&ashes wrote:Might as well do a bigger Rhino update, go to V3, and charge the same as the effects plug sells for seperately. Then at least everyone pays for it, and the Rhino owners get it inside Rhino, and maybe a few other upgrades. Just an idea.
Jeff
so whats next for "the Tick"?
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- KVRian
- 1164 posts since 16 Aug, 2004
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
as long as the Rhino fx section comes with rhino and has a separate standa lone version included I'm behind this.
I've been hoping for a rhino fx section for some time. i had grown patient about it, but now that I see it in print, I'm growing less patient about it.
in time for the end of year holiday spending binge?
I've been hoping for a rhino fx section for some time. i had grown patient about it, but now that I see it in print, I'm growing less patient about it.
in time for the end of year holiday spending binge?
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- KVRAF
- 3388 posts since 29 May, 2001 from New York, NY
huh ? standalone version for the fx version ? really ?
'Tick
'Tick
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- KVRAF
- 4908 posts since 10 Aug, 2004 from Colorado Springs
No. Physical modeling synthesis actually uses the governing equations of motion of plucked strings, tubes, reeds, etc., to create wave-forms.kodama wrote:Aren't physical models just preadjusted modular or fm synths that hide all the details so you think they magically sound like a guitar or harp, etc???
See here for details:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Ar ... _Modeling/
or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_m ... _synthesis
See, it's much different than modular or FM synthesis.
-Scott
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
I think he means as a separate plugin. So the FX would both be on-board Rhino and their own plugin.Big Tick wrote:huh ? standalone version for the fx version ? really ?
I think it's a good idea overall. Charge for the next version upgrade of Rhino, which would include the onboard new FX and the RhinoFX plugin, and also sell just the RhinoFX plugin separately for anyone who just wants the effects.
I don't think anyone could complain with that arrangement. Rhino2 works flawlessly, so if no one wants to pay for the upgrade, they still have a great synth.
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- KVRian
- 1399 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
So what's the good word on the new Rhino FX ?
Jeff
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
yes,I think he means as a separate plugin. So the FX would both be on-board Rhino and their own plugin.
that's what i meant and everything else shamann said as well.
i am so looking forward to this.
between Tick and daniel, I find no reason to hesitate about putting money down and ordering new offerings. i can't say that's true about any other soft synth enterprise.
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- KVRist
- 457 posts since 30 Jun, 2003 from cinci, oh
How about attack and decay envelope "regions".
Currently, rhino envelopes support only a sustain region, which you can drag out over the curve. I would like to see additionally an [optional] attack and decay region. If rhino supported this concept, then we could have top level sliders applied to the attack and decay of a patch.
Currently, there is no easy way to adjust attack / decay / release; which are arguably the most important parameters in tweaking a patch to a mix.
Currently, rhino envelopes support only a sustain region, which you can drag out over the curve. I would like to see additionally an [optional] attack and decay region. If rhino supported this concept, then we could have top level sliders applied to the attack and decay of a patch.
Currently, there is no easy way to adjust attack / decay / release; which are arguably the most important parameters in tweaking a patch to a mix.
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- KVRist
- 273 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from US
Although Rhino's envelopes seem overly complex at first blush they become familiar over time and actually easy to adjust. It is currently possible to control the length of envelope segments with velocity; the range of the adjustment is governed by those mysterious little triangles at the bottom of each envelope segment and the time parameter in the Velocity/Aftertouch box.
It might be possible to tie a slider to affect all those ratios at once which could stretch or compress the envelopes' overall length. The amount of change would again depend on the triangles' positions. And one would still need knowledge of the envelopes to make adjustments. However, since the envelopes don't always have to have sustain or release segments it might be impossible to tie a dedicated slider to each section.
'Tick is creative and might find a good solution. In the meantime your best option is to use the load/save option for envelopes so you can use shapes you are familiar with. This is a huge time saver with me.
It might be possible to tie a slider to affect all those ratios at once which could stretch or compress the envelopes' overall length. The amount of change would again depend on the triangles' positions. And one would still need knowledge of the envelopes to make adjustments. However, since the envelopes don't always have to have sustain or release segments it might be impossible to tie a dedicated slider to each section.
'Tick is creative and might find a good solution. In the meantime your best option is to use the load/save option for envelopes so you can use shapes you are familiar with. This is a huge time saver with me.
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- KVRian
- 1164 posts since 16 Aug, 2004
Whilst your planning an update for Rhino, heres some suggestions 
A right click sub menu for LFO shapes with the envelopes would be more streamlined than the current method of loading manually the envelope presets.
Tabs instead of the menu's for envelope selection, it is quicker and simpler to do it this way, less clicks.
Other nice additions would be an envelope retrigger option for mono mode, linear and exponential options for portmento. A unison option (mono and poly) with phase and detune parameters.
Reverse waveform(file) option.
A right click sub menu for LFO shapes with the envelopes would be more streamlined than the current method of loading manually the envelope presets.
Tabs instead of the menu's for envelope selection, it is quicker and simpler to do it this way, less clicks.
Other nice additions would be an envelope retrigger option for mono mode, linear and exponential options for portmento. A unison option (mono and poly) with phase and detune parameters.
Reverse waveform(file) option.
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- KVRist
- 392 posts since 1 Jul, 2004
Hi,
new Rhino (and Daniel preset collection) user here! Just started to analyze some of the presets, the matrix really helps to get the big picture of how a preset works at a glance - great for learning!
Here some suggestions:
* a pitch bend range of +/- 24 semitones please (perhaps I should take that line in my signature...
)
* morphing: a toggle (beneath the "LIN" button of the mod matrix) that gives access to a second matrix (just for the oscillators the rest could be grayed out there). In that matrix one can adjust how the oscillators influence the oscillator shape of each other: If both oscillators use an (additive) user wave form, then both forms are morphed, if one of them is based on a (not resynthesized) sample then they are simply blended. (If an osc is morphed with several oscs of which some are additive and some are not, then first all additives are morphed and after that the rest is blended with the intermediate result. That phase happens even before the oscillators are fed into the filters so beside morphing one could e.g. throw a whole bunch of detuned oscs at a filter at once (like e.g. in SymptOhm) instead of filtering each osc separately for interesting effects and in order to build more cpu friendly patches). It would be optimal if the morphing factors could be changed in the user control editor (just like the FMx/y ratios)
* perhaps a formant filter would be nice
Otherwise: Wonderful synth! (Also a really nice gui, I definitely prefer a multi-tabbed approach with few, logical ordered and not too small elements per page to a pack of 1001 squeezed nano-buttons with pico-fonts.)
Greetings,
NothanUmber
new Rhino (and Daniel preset collection) user here! Just started to analyze some of the presets, the matrix really helps to get the big picture of how a preset works at a glance - great for learning!
Here some suggestions:
* a pitch bend range of +/- 24 semitones please (perhaps I should take that line in my signature...
)* morphing: a toggle (beneath the "LIN" button of the mod matrix) that gives access to a second matrix (just for the oscillators the rest could be grayed out there). In that matrix one can adjust how the oscillators influence the oscillator shape of each other: If both oscillators use an (additive) user wave form, then both forms are morphed, if one of them is based on a (not resynthesized) sample then they are simply blended. (If an osc is morphed with several oscs of which some are additive and some are not, then first all additives are morphed and after that the rest is blended with the intermediate result. That phase happens even before the oscillators are fed into the filters so beside morphing one could e.g. throw a whole bunch of detuned oscs at a filter at once (like e.g. in SymptOhm) instead of filtering each osc separately for interesting effects and in order to build more cpu friendly patches). It would be optimal if the morphing factors could be changed in the user control editor (just like the FMx/y ratios)
* perhaps a formant filter would be nice
Otherwise: Wonderful synth! (Also a really nice gui, I definitely prefer a multi-tabbed approach with few, logical ordered and not too small elements per page to a pack of 1001 squeezed nano-buttons with pico-fonts.)
Greetings,
NothanUmber
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- KVRist
- 392 posts since 1 Jul, 2004
Two other nice things:
* an extended preview: please add a drop down menu to the oscillator shape preview field where one can select an oscillator/ring modulator (so the preview doesn't neccessarily show the current osc) and at a second tier of the menu a choice between five stages (raw, shaped, morphed, after fm, filtered). That preview would also be nice at the non-osc tabs like filters etc. so perhaps it could be added to the global section below - then one could even monitor two shapes at once in the oscillator tabs (e.g. a shaped modulator and the matching fm'ed carrier). Additionally a new tab that shows all five mentioned pictogramms for all six oscillators, the current shape of the ring mod oscillators and the shape of the resulting wave before/after the effects would be really great! These extensions would be a big help to learn how to use fm, filtering and waveshaping more "intentional". *edit* in order to see what fm does to the partials it would sometimes be nice to be able to toggle the preview to a partials chart instead of a "geometric" wave *edit*
* in relation to the suggested morph feature from above: a toggle at the additive editor to handle the current user shape like a sample (and thus blend instead of morph it in the morph matrix)
Greetings,
NothanUmber
P.S.: just see that the preview already shows changes of the waveshaper when it's active, nice! (So there are only three stages left
)
* an extended preview: please add a drop down menu to the oscillator shape preview field where one can select an oscillator/ring modulator (so the preview doesn't neccessarily show the current osc) and at a second tier of the menu a choice between five stages (raw, shaped, morphed, after fm, filtered). That preview would also be nice at the non-osc tabs like filters etc. so perhaps it could be added to the global section below - then one could even monitor two shapes at once in the oscillator tabs (e.g. a shaped modulator and the matching fm'ed carrier). Additionally a new tab that shows all five mentioned pictogramms for all six oscillators, the current shape of the ring mod oscillators and the shape of the resulting wave before/after the effects would be really great! These extensions would be a big help to learn how to use fm, filtering and waveshaping more "intentional". *edit* in order to see what fm does to the partials it would sometimes be nice to be able to toggle the preview to a partials chart instead of a "geometric" wave *edit*
* in relation to the suggested morph feature from above: a toggle at the additive editor to handle the current user shape like a sample (and thus blend instead of morph it in the morph matrix)
Greetings,
NothanUmber
P.S.: just see that the preview already shows changes of the waveshaper when it's active, nice! (So there are only three stages left
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- KVRist
- 273 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from US
Welcome, N.U. That's quite a list of suggestions!
Perhaps, putting to output of Rhino into an oscilloscope would help you visualize what's going on inside the instrument while programming it. The wave display in Rhino is too small to show any close detail, anyways.
Perhaps, putting to output of Rhino into an oscilloscope would help you visualize what's going on inside the instrument while programming it. The wave display in Rhino is too small to show any close detail, anyways.
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- KVRist
- 212 posts since 26 Nov, 2005 from Maine
OK, while people are making their suggestions known,
I have one small wish. Please expose the 6 quick-tweak parameter sliders as separate controllers for host applications to be able to midi-learn. (I know Rhino can midi learn but it can be useful to just have all synths mapped through the host)
Eric
I have one small wish. Please expose the 6 quick-tweak parameter sliders as separate controllers for host applications to be able to midi-learn. (I know Rhino can midi learn but it can be useful to just have all synths mapped through the host)
Eric
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- KVRist
- 392 posts since 1 Jul, 2004
Also a nice option (although internal oscilloscopes would be slightly nicerdaniel wrote: Perhaps, putting to output of Rhino into an oscilloscope would help you visualize what's going on inside the instrument while programming it.
). For that it would be nice to be able to do some kind of "solo" for a special stage so that one doesn't have to disable everyting else. (Some kind of selector with the choices from above that doesn't influence a preview but the output. (The default value could be something like "downmix after effects" or something like that then it would behave like now by default))Greetings,
NothanUmber