SX / Nuendo Performance Loss - A Myth ?

[bduffy]

Yeah - do tell about "the button"?

[Sascha Franck]

Hmpf, apart from very few (audio only related) features, I can't see Logic being "outdated".
Yes, I allready admitted, Logic IS ageing, but I could as well say that SX' MIDI editing and mixer is totally outdated compared to Logic. I really don't see the point. Yeah, Logic/PC hasn't been updated since 3 years, still, SX' mixer looks and feels as if it hasn't been updated since VST hit the streets.

[jasonsantiago]

Yeah, the SX mixer blows.
What midi features does logic have that cubase does not?

[grotman]

i have had sx since the first incarnation and found it a wonderful and inspiring program to work with. Using Sx3 has only reaffirmed my initial feelings towards this. I did a comparison last night running the same project on both versions(actually all three) and there was no visible difference on the cpu hit , nothing. I think if you like what your using and are actually excited about the work you are doing you will always or neearly always produce a good result. I mean i had an old 733 p3 running Cedit and loved it man, i still have praise for that old app and sometimes still use it, but it is just a tool not an instrument(not always true i guess but...)..... Heres a hint a friend of mine told me. Hit record, check its working properly, and then turn that f**king monitor off. i never looked back..

[Jaeson Merrill]

steinbergs retarded recovery speech is simply badly put politicking to save face.

obviously calling to a USB device is going to be more intensive than an emulated driver inside the RAM>

cubase is crap anyway, who cares?

You mean badly put policking like "cubase is crap"?

basically, but i didnt create the program and im not getting paid for defending it, so its not my job to give anything more.

[Jaeson Merrill]

and since when is that "politicking"?? im just giving an opinion.. Steinberg are obviously desperately trying to save face.

[Sascha Franck]

What midi features does logic have that cubase does not?

- Permanent visual control of quantizing values. Incredibly useful.
- A velocity tool in Matrix edit. Just the easiest way to alter velocities.
- Hyperdraw. No need to open an editor in order to edit CC movements.
- Hyperedit. Brilliant for drums (I almost prefer it over Cubase's drum edit), even better for mutliple CC controlling.
- MIDI recording of plugin parameter movements. Way better for creative stuff than using track automation.
- Not exactly a MIDI only feature: Audio to MIDI. I use that on about any real drum kick/snare part to double them with a trigger track.

And all of those aren't anything esoteric - I use them like every minute.

And besides: I pretty much prefer the object based structure of Logic, compared to the track based structure of Logic.
I often have two takes of something, running through the same object. No need to fool around with any "mini tracks" inside a part. I just double the audio track in the arrangement. Impossible with Cubase. Same for MIDI tracks, but at least for those I can assign the same output.

[stag]

Actually SX2\3 have a button that let you disable PDC, it´s on the VST audio bay, on expert mode next to the low latency enabler.
The button i yhink they could bring to the track view is the "Use System Time Stamp" to avoid people to look for it hidden on menus when they suffer from early MIDI, or whem togling bettwen external sound modules and VSTi.

The velocity tool or akin is going to be implemented on in the future.
the SX3 can write Midi data to automation tracks.
I would like on plugin informantion i could handle some plugin options such as the number of audio channels and routing, it can get a mess to manage it on the mixer.
What´s the point of using 8 stereo channels on plug for instance and on SX mixer showing gazillion of them.

[Sascha Franck]

The velocity tool or akin is going to be implemented on in the future.

I heard so.

the SX3 can write Midi data to automation tracks.

That's exactly the opposite of what I want.
I want to write plugin parameter movements to MIDI tracks. I do that every day in Logic.

What´s the point of using 8 stereo channels on plug for instance and on SX mixer showing gazillion of them.

Exactly.
And what's the point of the mixer following your project track list almost religiously (which is bad enough allready), just when you're using VSTis it won't work any more at all. That's incredibly lame.

[spaceman]

What midi features does logic have that cubase does not?

- Permanent visual control of quantizing values. Incredibly useful.
- A velocity tool in Matrix edit. Just the easiest way to alter velocities.
- Hyperdraw. No need to open an editor in order to edit CC movements.
- Hyperedit. Brilliant for drums (I almost prefer it over Cubase's drum edit), even better for mutliple CC controlling.
- MIDI recording of plugin parameter movements. Way better for creative stuff than using track automation.
- Not exactly a MIDI only feature: Audio to MIDI. I use that on about any real drum kick/snare part to double them with a trigger track.

And all of those aren't anything esoteric - I use them like every minute.

And besides: I pretty much prefer the object based structure of Logic, compared to the track based structure of Logic.
I often have two takes of something, running through the same object. No need to fool around with any "mini tracks" inside a part. I just double the audio track in the arrangement. Impossible with Cubase. Same for MIDI tracks, but at least for those I can assign the same output.

not to mention the best automation and the best onboard FXs and instruments

[autoy]

not to mention the best automation and the best onboard FXs and instruments

I agree. What they offer is simply incredible. The included FX are worth the price of Logic alone and Steinberg can't even touch that (although they tried). The optional plugs are awsome too, along the lines of the best vstis out there, unlike Steinberg's current line up (with the possible exception of Xphraze).

[Scotrick]

okay, if anyone is paying attention to my little rambling rants, when I wrote 'button,' 'checkmark,' would be more accurate, in Cubase SX 2, under devices, plug-in information, there's a window with lots of plug-in information, on my machine, you have to drag that window open, or scroll it, and eventually you'll see an 'o,' at the top among the other parameters, if you grab the line right after the 'o,' and drag it, you'll see that the 'o,' is the first letter of the word 'old,' and if you keep dragging you'll get 'old host behaviour,' and if you check the manual all it says is that some plug-ins might require old host behaviour to avoid 'feedback like effects,' but from reading the forum it also seems like older plug-ins have a variety of weird responses beyond just the feedback like mess...

I think it's for plug-ins that weren't updated to VST 2.0 and above... though of course most now are....

I know, not exactly an obvious setting, is it?

[bduffy]

steinbergs retarded recovery speech is simply badly put politicking to save face.

obviously calling to a USB device is going to be more intensive than an emulated driver inside the RAM>

cubase is crap anyway, who cares?

You mean badly put policking like "cubase is crap"?

basically, but i didnt create the program and im not getting paid for defending it, so its not my job to give anything more.

Huh? Sorry, don't get that.

and since when is that "politicking"?? im just giving an opinion.. Steinberg are obviously desperately trying to save face.

Sorry if it sounded rude, it's just that I wouldn't call defending your application (or saving face) "politicking"; that's not what I understand the term to mean. Seemed to me it's just their opinion, and so is "Cubase is crap". I just couldn't understand the difference there, or how it proves Cubase is in fact crap.

[putte]

what i say probably isnt representative, though i´d never recommend logic on osX.

what i am experiencing since i switched to osX 1,5 years ago is simply hell. crashes after crashes, plugins interfering with each other, and logic itself being flaky.
the AU format is a devil to me and has no advantages over vst at all. (at least i for one never saw some).
in fact, over here VST played WAY better on os9.

oh, and how would you feel if you troubleshoot after troubleshoot but nothing helps? Even the developers dont know whats happening, and are often unable to get the sense of these crashlogs osX spits out. randomness here, randomness there ..

regarding logic´s "modernity" i can only say that they simply arent up-to-date. instead they bloat logic with effects and instruments, while the audio-editor (for example) still is like it was in the late 50´s.

many of the new features in logic 7, regarding audio-handling, are so half-hearted that its a sad joke. ("follow tempo" for example .. )


yes, i am bitter as i can get regarding logic on osX.

what once was a stable and modern host degraded into something so damn un-pro .. again, what i say isnt representative, its just my personal experience.

putte

[Bas]

I just wonder where in the EULA or user guides for a DAW application, that it says that to defend ones chosen DAW, one has to slate all competition.

Logic may be a fine application, and might even have the odd useful tool, but I saw nothing in my Steinberg documentation saying that I must slate logic at every available opportunity.

Do Emapple have such instructions with their software?