KVR Audio

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:52 am

AnX wrote:
ere2learn wrote:In stock,€1199

https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_deepmind12.htm

UK is £1020 at Thomann, so thats pretty close. Im sure some UK outlets will lose the VAT and bring it down to £999. Look like its just Europe that will be off the 999 mark by a big margin.

£983 at Gear4Music UK. Nothing in stock in the UK yet (Thomann also sold out in hours...) Sweetwater (USA) apparently has 500 units on the way, but most are taken with pre-order.

Suffice to say this synth has been a hit commercial and I hope it inspires more price competitive products. I look forward to the user reviews coming out....

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:53 pm

Hmm....I can see the mopho x 4 is 300€ below Deepmind (699 vs. 1199) at Thomann in Germany. That is a step towards good competition. Now if second hand prices of Mopho x4 could be pushed as low as 500€, it would be within my consciousness' price range. I will keep an eye on it.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:02 pm

Yes, and I believe the Prophet 8 is now discontinued which may have been the closest Polly competition to the DM12 (I own the rack P8 and it is one of my favourite instruments and preventing my gear lust for a DM12....so far

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:10 pm

SLiC wrote:Suffice to say this synth has been a hit commercial and I hope it inspires more price competitive products. I look forward to the user reviews coming out....

No it hasn't, there aren't enough on the market to determine that, i suspect it will be, but it isn't yet.
And the $999 price point has not been translated across UK and Europe, which is a complete joke for a European company, yes it may only be an extra 60 or 70 pounds after tax, but that is still a joke.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:40 am

idfpower wrote:
Daags wrote: would you mind linking me to any source(s)/threads where this is being discussed in (greater) detail ? particularly the analogue drum machines ... this is news to me, and the fact they are quite far in development ? wow. i need to lurk more at wherever it is this is being covered. (somewhere on gearslutz i guess?)
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... ine-7.html

thanks

duncanm · Post by **duncanm** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 pm

bungle wrote:
SLiC wrote:Suffice to say this synth has been a hit commercial and I hope it inspires more price competitive products. I look forward to the user reviews coming out....
No it hasn't, there aren't enough on the market to determine that, i suspect it will be, but it isn't yet.
And the $999 price point has not been translated across UK and Europe, which is a complete joke for a European company, yes it may only be an extra 60 or 70 pounds after tax, but that is still a joke.

the $999 is probably without sales tax, so the only place you'll actually get it at this price is Oregon, probably.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:35 pm

Nope, the $999 was supposed to be retail, in fact the price went up and up and up, originally it was much lower (They even sent out surveys about prices, originally around the $400-600 mark) but the idiot monkeys over at Gearslutz all proclaimed it to be the new messiah of synths and Uli Behringer is not stupid.

transmetropolitan · Post by **transmetropolitan** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:44 pm

The whole thing with VAT is a small thing, not a big thing. But it's crazy that people are going in to bat to make excuses for the manufacturer here.

The EU is the biggest trading bloc in the world and VAT rates are standardised within a couple of points across the whole area. The idea that it's prohibitively difficult to present an accurate picture because of tax variance or because it's not a big enough single market for a global company to consider within marketing strategy is pretty far fetched.

OK there are a couple of countries where VAT is 25% rather than 20% but this doesn't seem to prevent other companies (e.g. Arturia) announcing accurate MSRPs - the only price prospective buyers are really interested in.

Perhaps there were late changes to manufacturing costs or some other unexpected charge - I don't know.

But based on Behringer's own marketing and hype I expected the synth to come in at maybe 899 or 999 euro MSRP. Instead it's 1200 street with one of the biggest/cheapest audio retailers on the continent.

So you see, something does not really add up and VAT is not an adequate explanation in my opinion.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a product that is so promising/intriguing but has been marketed in such an annoying way!

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:23 am

Behringer are just going for the cash grab with the first release, shout how great something is before ever seeing/touching/really hearing it, and who can blame them, those idiots get what they deserve.

NEOREV · Post by **NEOREV** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:21 am

It's selling for a $1000 here in the US. Perhaps Behringer made the mistake of thinking people had brains and would have figured countries with VAT would have a little higher pricing to cover taxes. Damn Behringer, why did you think people could figure things out for themselves? You give people too much credit. Shame on you.

transmetropolitan · Post by **transmetropolitan** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:15 am

NEOREV wrote:It's selling for a $1000 here in the US. Perhaps Behringer made the mistake of thinking people had brains and would have figured countries with VAT would have a little higher pricing to cover taxes. Damn Behringer, why did you think people could figure things out for themselves? You give people too much credit. Shame on you.

What you're saying here is pure nonsense.

Sales tax across the US differs more than VAT across the EU, and the EU is a bigger market.

Just tell us the damn retail price like every other manufacturer does. Behringer is a European company by origin and knows all this very well.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:48 am

I really hope all the people moaning about 980 quid for a 12 voice polly analogue synth don't try and buy it, the first wave in Europe sold out in hours, phoning around in the UK the first wave of stock will go to pre-orders. Please keep morning, do not buy this synth (at least until I can get mine!)

Like many professionals, I am VAT registered so don't pay VAT in the UK so it will cost me less than 800 pounds.

FYI I do not quote VAT when I give my costs (just state Plus tax as applicable) as if you sell internationally you never know what the local tax will be. This is normal business practice.

transmetropolitan · Post by **transmetropolitan** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:15 am

SLiC wrote:I really hope all the people moaning about 980 quid for a 12 voice polly analogue synth don't try and buy it, the first wave in Europe sold out in hours, phoning around in the UK the first wave of stock will go to pre-orders. Please keep morning, do not buy this synth (at least until I can get mine!)

Like many professionals, I am VAT registered so don't pay VAT in the UK so it will cost me less than 800 pounds.

FYI I do not quote VAT when I give my costs (just state Plus tax as applicable) as if you sell internationally you never know what the local tax will be. This is normal business practice.

Normal business practice but not normal retail practice.

And I'm not complaining about the price so much, just the ridiculous marketing campaign.

Is it really so much to ask for a campaign that explains in straightforward terms what the product is, what it does and how much it's going to cost? People think this is an unrealistic expectation on my part?

I get that manufacturers need to build a bit of hype up to generate interest but this has been the worst excesses of clickbait and misleading/deliberately incomplete information.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:37 pm

transmetropolitan wrote:
And I'm not complaining about the price so much, just the ridiculous marketing campaign.

Is it really so much to ask for a campaign that explains in straightforward terms what the product is, what it does and how much it's going to cost? People think this is an unrealistic expectation on my part?

Probably Yes.

Its a 'marketing campaign'...if it gets interest in the product and they sell lots of them, its a successful marketing campaign. Not that I am a fan of marketing, but that's the world we live in now- remember, you don't have to click the link, but there are a ton of people googling hourly for every new scrap of information (wait until you see all the NAMM 'leaked' 'rumours and teasers!

Personally I don't think it was a deliberate drip feed teaser campaign, having followed it on Gearslutzs (400 pages!) I think they were genuinely developing it 'in the open' and releasing what they had. The entire instruction manual for the product has been on the web site for about a month (before the product was released....) and they released early models to sonic state etc for full reviews several months ago....

Either way, it must have worked as I cant bloody buy and I am trying!

beau921 · Post by **beau921** » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:06 pm

transmetropolitan wrote:
NEOREV wrote:It's selling for a $1000 here in the US. Perhaps Behringer made the mistake of thinking people had brains and would have figured countries with VAT would have a little higher pricing to cover taxes. Damn Behringer, why did you think people could figure things out for themselves? You give people too much credit. Shame on you.
What you're saying here is pure nonsense.

Sales tax across the US differs more than VAT across the EU, and the EU is a bigger market.

Just tell us the damn retail price like every other manufacturer does. Behringer is a European company by origin and knows all this very well.

Actually, if you order [speaking of inside the Continental USA] from a retailer like Musician's Friend, Sweetwater, etc., and, you're not within the state where they are based, you pay no sales tax, and, often, no shipping. So, in that case $999.99 is the final price.

Behringer Analog Synth