KVR Audio

fluffy_little_something · Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:24 pm

Idle is fine here, about 3%, which might be due to anything going on on my computer, though. The value is the same whether or not the GUI is open.
When playing, though, the load shoots up. I guess Richard mentioned SSE somewhere, maybe Legend requires a later version of SSE than available in my CPU. Just guessing...

gentleclockdivider · Post by **gentleclockdivider** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:36 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote:0% here when idle. Though, my machine is pretty high end.

Yes , But 30 pct is purely in windows task manager ...just because the gui is opened ....no audio load whatsoever ...
gui open

gui closed

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:10 pm

Chris-S wrote:Yes, also noticed this. I would like alternation (new notes going L,R,L,R,L,R,...) more.

Actually it does that, if you flip the Note Priority switch on the back panel to "LOW/RR" (RR = Round Robin). The reason there's two poly modes is that the note-stealing for pads/chords and such is better at the default setting, while the alteration is nice for panning.

Richard

fluffy_little_something · Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:34 pm

Mutant wrote:
1. Real Sub37.
2. The Legend.
3. Xhip.
4. Diva.

Diva wins in the anti-aliasing category.
The 2 other softsynths are good enough for the aliasing to be inaudible.

*The scale of the spectrum view is 16.2K to 22K.

So, shouldn't such a faithful emulation have the noise floor of the hardware as well? I assume it is audible, right?

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:46 pm

Is it possible to hear some examples of all those noises?

In playing with middle octaves, I'm not hearing something bad! I only hear pleasant nice sounds.

So, can the advanced users/developer give hints of how to reproduce those noises (even better to post some sound clips as examples)?

fluffy_little_something · Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:49 pm

Maybe it is just very subtle like on vinyl records as opposed to CD's.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:03 pm

EnGee wrote:Is it possible to hear some examples of all those noises?

In playing with middle octaves, I'm not hearing something bad! I only hear pleasant nice sounds.

So, can the advanced users/developer give hints of how to reproduce those noises (even better to post some sound clips as examples)?

As i said the aliasing noise is inaudible, the amplifier spikes on both sides of frequency peaks will not be perceived as noise, but as a sligthly more "analog", "full" timbre.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:08 am

Mutant wrote:
EnGee wrote:Is it possible to hear some examples of all those noises?

In playing with middle octaves, I'm not hearing something bad! I only hear pleasant nice sounds.

So, can the advanced users/developer give hints of how to reproduce those noises (even better to post some sound clips as examples)?
As i said the aliasing noise is inaudible, the amplifier spikes on both sides of frequency peaks will not be perceived as noise, but as a sligthly more "analog", "full" timbre.

Great then

if we can't hear it, I don't mind it

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:42 am

gentleclockdivider wrote: Both plugins show around 30 cpu usage when not being used ..gui opened ...cpu usage is verry moderate when it comes to audio .
Any one else having issues with this ?

No, not on three different systems with four different Hosts.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:53 am

gentleclockdivider wrote: But 30 pct is purely in windows task manager ...just because the gui is opened ....no audio load whatsoever ...
gui open

This is on my internet computer an ancient Core 2 Duo running at 3.16 GHz. Notice Reaper is only using 0.3% Try another Host than Renoise (it's CPU Meter is only showing 1.1%).

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:36 am

Mutant wrote:
EnGee wrote:Is it possible to hear some examples of all those noises?

In playing with middle octaves, I'm not hearing something bad! I only hear pleasant nice sounds.

So, can the advanced users/developer give hints of how to reproduce those noises (even better to post some sound clips as examples)?
As i said the aliasing noise is inaudible, the amplifier spikes on both sides of frequency peaks will not be perceived as noise, but as a sligthly more "analog", "full" timbre.

and that's by design. did cost us a lot of bloodsweat to get this right actually, to make it behave like on the mini we had for reference.

a quick note on "aliasing":
EVERY digital synth that relies on recursive structures (saturation factors whatsoever) inherits aliasing. but from a certain point on, this has to be ignored. f.e. on legend, we have aliasing at -84db at a reference level of around 0db (!!). and that _only_ from 16khz upwards - not even a dog would be aware of that, let alone a human ear. on top of that, the osc signal itself masks that. now take in account, that the minimoog is rather exeptionally good in terms of signal to noise rato (around -60/65db on a good serviced minimoog). essentially, the floornoise of a minimoog would mask every "aliasing" by far, if an analog synth would actually do that in theory.
taking in account, that in a full production, individual synthparts would very hardly _not_ reach 0db reference at all, this realistically lowers the aliasing on top.
so, of course we could _easily_ get rid of the aliasing to way below approx. - 100db, it would be just a waste of cpu cycles, which one would only see on an appropiate analyser - but would never be able to _hear_ any difference.
so from a certain point on, you should learn to take aliasing with quite some grain of salt.
bottom line - if you can't hear any aliasing at reference level of aroind 0db - just fuckin' ignore it. you'll be good to go with it, trust me.

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:38 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:So, shouldn't such a faithful emulation have the noise floor of the hardware as well? I assume it is audible, right?

Yes, but the noise floor is always present, whether you play a note or not. And if it is always present, the vast majority of users would complain about constant noise of course. Like I wrote earlier, audio engineers typically fix the noise of analog gear with a noise gate if it becomes a problem, so there's no point in emulating something you would later remove anyway.

Richard

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:54 am

Yeh, come on - I want a REAL analogue emulation- I want the VST to stop working after a few years and have to be sent away to be repaired...I want noisy pots, static clicks and hiss (so I can remove it all later with gates and compressors) and I want that musty smell.....

People around here seem to care far to much about what things actually sound like....I just don't get it, the oscilloscope picture is far more important than the actual sound....

Happy Legend User

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:14 am

One general note about frequency components above 15 khz. Either you cannot hear them at all, or you need to increase the volume a lot to be able to hear them (the so called "hearing threshold", which rises strongly above 15 khz). The human hearing is not linear from 20 hz to 20 khz, this is very important to realize. Now you could say "screw the neighbors" and just amplify the sound like mad, the only problem is that the fundamental in a sawtooth, when played in the musically useful range, is much louder than the high frequency components above 15 khz. With "actual" synth sounds that are lowpass-filtered, even more so, because e.g. a 24dB filter will attenuate 24 dB per octave on top of the 6 dB attenuation of the sawtooth. Other than the hearing threshold, there is also the masking effects of the human hearing, where louder partials mask softer ones - a very well researched topic in pyschoacoustics. So in a nutshell, unless there's some huge spike or other weirdness in the >15 kHz range, it is completely irrelevant.

Richard

fluffy_little_something · Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:21 am

SLiC wrote:Yeh, come on - I want a REAL analogue emulation- I want the VST to stop working after a few years and have to be sent away to be repaired...I want noisy pots, static clicks and hiss (so I can remove it all later with gates and compressors) and I want that musty smell.....

People around here seem to care far to much about what things actually sound like....I just don't get it, the oscilloscope picture is far more important than the actual sound....

Happy Legend User

That's not really the point. When people make such an effort to make a perfect emulation, it is only logical that someone asks about that noise floor that seems so different from all three plugins.
I don't even like emulations, I prefer original plugins that go way beyond old hardware. I mean, as good as Legend sounds, it is a bit limited and I am already a bit bored with the demo version after a couple of days. It has nothing to do with the quality, of course, but with the limitations of the original. I wish Sylenth1 had the same basic sound quality, but other than that nothing from Legend

Synapse Audio Minimoog emulation "The Legend" for VST/AU and RE released!