Cakewalk Sonar X3

[chrisby]

Short answer - because they get away with it. And all software companies get away with this.

We consumers are to blame that we accept software that is not fully functional as specified.

A car company and most productmarkets would never get away with that - but software do.
Even consumer rights associations seem to accept this.

So it's common practise to accept bugs as features to live with.

And the next question would be - why should you not pay for the new features and extensions of X3. What we can expect is updates and maintenance on a release until it works.

And last, Cakewalk has suffered from not fixing bugs to consumer liking, and loosing updates - and now they were sold to Gibson, probably cheap because of reduced consumer base.

They missed 5 updates of Sonar from me because of bugs not fixed - take another 100,000 times or so and they loose plenty money over this.

But I'm a happy camper now with X3 basic - whatever else to say Cakewalk has reasonable upgrade costs. Some new energy in Cake camp as I see it.

I was very disappointed when I noticed that Cakewalk wasn't going to fix X2's bugs even I was still using X1. I was thinking about upgrading, but decided not to. I simply felt like Cakewalk betrayed their customers.

I might upgrade X1 to X3 but they're not offering me a sensible solution. Why? Because Basic doesn't have ProChannel (I have purchased every PC module) and Producer comes with all those third party plug-ins I don't need - and I'm not gonna pay for those to get ProChannel. I know it's a hell of a good deal for those who do not have lots of plug-ins, but for those who have enough or too much plug-ins already... well...

They do offer an intermediate upgrade version... "Studio" has prochannel and doesn't have all the 3rd party plugs and is priced between Basic and Pro....

[beltrom]

If you consider that Addictive Drums is 179,00$ at regular price, and that the Producer upgrade is 149,99$, I should say that with the extra content the upgrade pays itself..

Since I already have Addictive Drums, which is a very high quality product, I will sell the second serial number I get to reduce the price of the upgrade to X3 when I decide to upgrade..

As an alternative if you haven't seen it. It seems at least some users have been offered to trade in the serial with XLN Audio for other products (class act I have to say). There was a discussion at the Cakewalk forum about it.

[J4R1O]

They do offer an intermediate upgrade version... "Studio" has prochannel and doesn't have all the 3rd party plugs and is priced between Basic and Pro....

But it kinda downgrades some parts...
Dimension PRO -> Dimension LE

And these plug-ins are not included in Sonar X3 Studio:

TruePianos Amber
Tube Saturation
PC4K S-Type Bus Compressor
PC76 U-Type Compressor
PX-64 Percussion Strip
VX-64 Vocal Strip
TL-64 Tube Leveler
TS-64 Transient Shaper


Win some, lose some... but I'd rather keep them all.

[chrisby]

They do offer an intermediate upgrade version... "Studio" has prochannel and doesn't have all the 3rd party plugs and is priced between Basic and Pro....

But it kinda downgrades some parts...
Dimension PRO -> Dimension LE

And these plug-ins are not included in Sonar X3 Studio:

TruePianos Amber
Tube Saturation
PC4K S-Type Bus Compressor
PC76 U-Type Compressor
PX-64 Percussion Strip
VX-64 Vocal Strip
TL-64 Tube Leveler
TS-64 Transient Shaper


Win some, lose some... but I'd rather keep them all.

Ahhh, I misunderstood... I thought you wanted Pro Channel but not all the plugs.

[jsp1979]

They do offer an intermediate upgrade version... "Studio" has prochannel and doesn't have all the 3rd party plugs and is priced between Basic and Pro....

But it kinda downgrades some parts...
Dimension PRO -> Dimension LE

And these plug-ins are not included in Sonar X3 Studio:

TruePianos Amber
Tube Saturation
PC4K S-Type Bus Compressor
PC76 U-Type Compressor
PX-64 Percussion Strip
VX-64 Vocal Strip
TL-64 Tube Leveler
TS-64 Transient Shaper


Win some, lose some... but I'd rather keep them all.

But those plugins were in X1 Producer, right? So, if someone goes from X1 Producer to X3 studio, they can still use those plugins.

[satYatunes]

They do offer an intermediate upgrade version... "Studio" has prochannel and doesn't have all the 3rd party plugs and is priced between Basic and Pro....

But it kinda downgrades some parts...
Dimension PRO -> Dimension LE

And these plug-ins are not included in Sonar X3 Studio:

TruePianos Amber
Tube Saturation
PC4K S-Type Bus Compressor
PC76 U-Type Compressor
PX-64 Percussion Strip
VX-64 Vocal Strip
TL-64 Tube Leveler
TS-64 Transient Shaper


Win some, lose some... but I'd rather keep them all.

But those plugins were in X1 Producer, right? So, if someone goes from X1 Producer to X3 studio, they can still use those plugins.

That is correct.

[deastman]

Crash was fixed in X3b update (Resolved a crash when using direct MIDI output with multiple VST Instruments simultaneously, such as multiple instances of JamStix or Catanya (CWBRN-5781, CWBRN-2504, CWBRN-2564, CWBRN-1739))

Question:
Why I must pay again?

Short answer - because they get away with it. And all software companies get away with this.

We consumers are to blame that we accept software that is not fully functional as specified.

A car company and most productmarkets would never get away with that - but software do.
Even consumer rights associations seem to accept this.

The stereo/navigation computer in my Toyota reboots several times a day. The service center just shrugs their shoulders. I'm not sure why you assume other industries are less prone to human error. These are complex systems, resources are never infinite, and I'm afraid that bugs are simply a fact of life.

[Jace-BeOS]

Crash was fixed in X3b update (Resolved a crash when using direct MIDI output with multiple VST Instruments simultaneously, such as multiple instances of JamStix or Catanya (CWBRN-5781, CWBRN-2504, CWBRN-2564, CWBRN-1739))

Question:
Why I must pay again?

Short answer - because they get away with it. And all software companies get away with this.

We consumers are to blame that we accept software that is not fully functional as specified.

A car company and most productmarkets would never get away with that - but software do.
Even consumer rights associations seem to accept this.

The stereo/navigation computer in my Toyota reboots several times a day. The service center just shrugs their shoulders. I'm not sure why you assume other industries are less prone to human error. These are complex systems, resources are never infinite, and I'm afraid that bugs are simply a fact of life.

Yeah, you just gave another example of computer industry exceptions. Why do you think they're reacting that way? Because it's a "computer" and no one believes it should actually work consistently.

While the GPS is arguably a very core function of transportation, it is not yet considered one. Driving around and having working windows and other mechanical stuff is. So those other things will get actually fixed. Software... good effin luck.

[Jace-BeOS]

Crash was fixed in X3b update (Resolved a crash when using direct MIDI output with multiple VST Instruments simultaneously, such as multiple instances of JamStix or Catanya (CWBRN-5781, CWBRN-2504, CWBRN-2564, CWBRN-1739))

Question:
Why I must pay again?

Short answer - because they get away with it. And all software companies get away with this.

We consumers are to blame that we accept software that is not fully functional as specified.

A car company and most productmarkets would never get away with that - but software do.
Even consumer rights associations seem to accept this.

So it's common practise to accept bugs as features to live with.

And the next question would be - why should you not pay for the new features and extensions of X3. What we can expect is updates and maintenance on a release until it works.

And last, Cakewalk has suffered from not fixing bugs to consumer liking, and loosing updates - and now they were sold to Gibson, probably cheap because of reduced consumer base.

They missed 5 updates of Sonar from me because of bugs not fixed - take another 100,000 times or so and they loose plenty money over this.

But I'm a happy camper now with X3 basic - whatever else to say Cakewalk has reasonable upgrade costs. Some new energy in Cake camp as I see it.

If i could MOD you UP, i would have done so. i get so used to thinking i'm the ONLY ONE that realizes this about the industry i am most deeply bound to. Thanks for speaking up.

[hibidy]

They ain't getting any more of my cash. They hosed X2 users. I'm not paying for bug fixes. X3c? Yeah, thanks cakewalk.

[Prunesquallor]

They hosed X2 users.

Unfortunate, yeah, but probably due to circumstances beyond their control. They were being sold, remember?

This is speculation, but they were probably told to down tools until the situation was resolved. Oh, and there was probably a gagging clause as well.

They probably didn't know where their next pay cheque was coming from, if it makes you happy.

[deastman]

Crash was fixed in X3b update (Resolved a crash when using direct MIDI output with multiple VST Instruments simultaneously, such as multiple instances of JamStix or Catanya (CWBRN-5781, CWBRN-2504, CWBRN-2564, CWBRN-1739))

Question:
Why I must pay again?

Short answer - because they get away with it. And all software companies get away with this.

We consumers are to blame that we accept software that is not fully functional as specified.

A car company and most productmarkets would never get away with that - but software do.
Even consumer rights associations seem to accept this.

The stereo/navigation computer in my Toyota reboots several times a day. The service center just shrugs their shoulders. I'm not sure why you assume other industries are less prone to human error. These are complex systems, resources are never infinite, and I'm afraid that bugs are simply a fact of life.

Yeah, you just gave another example of computer industry exceptions. Why do you think they're reacting that way? Because it's a "computer" and no one believes it should actually work consistently.

While the GPS is arguably a very core function of transportation, it is not yet considered one. Driving around and having working windows and other mechanical stuff is. So those other things will get actually fixed. Software... good effin luck.

True, it is just another computer, but its still the car industry. But as for why the engine doesn't just fall out while you're driving down the freeway? Well, the bugs in Sonar never got anyone killed... at least as far as I know!

[whyterabbyt]

While the GPS is arguably a very core function of transportation, it is not yet considered one. Driving around and having working windows and other mechanical stuff is. So those other things will get actually fixed. Software... good effin luck.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Recalls+&+Defects

[GeorgeZ]

If you consider that Addictive Drums is 179,00$ at regular price, and that the Producer upgrade is 149,99$, I should say that with the extra content the upgrade pays itself..

Since I already have Addictive Drums, which is a very high quality product, I will sell the second serial number I get to reduce the price of the upgrade to X3 when I decide to upgrade..

As an alternative if you haven't seen it. It seems at least some users have been offered to trade in the serial with XLN Audio for other products (class act I have to say). There was a discussion at the Cakewalk forum about it.

Hmmm, that's very good. Was my one gripe with this upgrade, I own a bunch of ADpaks and AD. This might sway me. Man, XLN is such a kickass company.

[kbaccki]

They hosed X2 users.

Unfortunate, yeah, but probably due to circumstances beyond their control. They were being sold, remember?

This is speculation, but they were probably told to down tools until the situation was resolved. Oh, and there was probably a gagging clause as well.

They probably didn't know where their next pay cheque was coming from, if it makes you happy.

While you present an intriguing plotline, cake's release and update schedule is well established. The x3 schedule and leftover x2 bugs is bidness as usual, regardless of paychecks and buyouts.