Now Hive is here, is it RIP Sylenth?

[recursive one]

I believe Hive is more capable than any other synth I've used in regards to creating velocity sensitive attacks that can alter the sounds to extremes. It is settings with various envelopes to velocity settings in the modulation matrix that can create this. Yet Hive can make a pad from soft playing to a pluck pad when playing with more force.

I believe most synths with decent mod matrix can be programmed in such a way, Hive is not unique in this regard

[fluffy_little_something]

In terms of mod matrix Sylenth1 is clearly a bit outdated by now.

[Dasheesh]

In terms of mod matrix Sylenth1 is clearly a bit outdated by now.

It's done with intention by the developer to keep the cpu as low as possible. lennard could very easily update that and could have done it years ago.

[fluffy_little_something]

In terms of mod matrix Sylenth1 is clearly a bit outdated by now.

It's done with intention by the developer to keep the cpu as low as possible. lennard could very easily update that and could have done it years ago.

Dunno. All I do know is that I really like being able to modulate individual envelope stages. So many synths offer that these days. And I don't think it is a terribly demanding modulation. A single, say, velocity value is used per note played, whether that value is higher or lower is probably irrelevant.

[mcnoone]

I believe Hive is more capable than any other synth I've used in regards to creating velocity sensitive attacks that can alter the sounds to extremes. It is settings with various envelopes to velocity settings in the modulation matrix that can create this. Yet Hive can make a pad from soft playing to a pluck pad when playing with more force.

I believe most synths with decent mod matrix can be programmed in such a way, Hive is not unique in this regard

Hive seems to have a better programmed velocity system imo.
It also has around 80 different modulation targets, giving the ability to target more settings with velocity. than a lot of other synths.
Either way, some don't even use velocity in programming sounds, or creating tracks using piano rolls without different velocity values. Maybe that's why I didn't notice its effective use until using Hive, which takes advantage of it, with more than a few patches.

[padillac]

Hive sounds awesome, has a SUPER fast workflow, and a ton of modulation. That's why I dig it.

[republik]

@bftucker and FLS

I don't have a horse in this race because the only reason I buy synths anymore is if they're popular and sell well so I can make sound libraries and sell them. Yeah, pretty mercenary, but that's the reality of my life now. I have more synths than I could ever personally use and really don't need anything else.

So, having said that, looking at the HIve architecture and comparing it to other U-he synths, it isn't nearly as flexible as Zebra 2, Diva or Bazille. Structure wise, it's really a pretty basic synth. In fact, structure wise, there are a ton of synths that are just as complex or more so. In other words, it's a pretty limited synth as far as what it can do.

Does it sound good? Totally subjective question but yeah, to my ears it sounds good. Does it sound as good as Sylenth1? Again, to my ears, yeah, maybe better. Will I get it? Sure, now that Urs has released sales data making Hive their 3rd best selling synth. That translates into dollars for me if I make a decent sound library.

But as FLS said, a synth doesn't have to be the holly grail or a piece of crap. It can actually be somewhere in the middle.

Hive, IMO, is a solid synth that isn't anything amazingly special, which is why It's the only U-he synth that I don't own. There was nothing about it, looking at what I already own, that made me go "I gotta get this synth so I can do XYZ better than with other synths." It just isn't anything amazingly special. Zebra 2. That's a special synth. It's definitely in my top 5.

But the thing is, and this is what so many people miss, a synth doesn't have to be amazingly special to be useful. Hive sounds great. It can probably be used for a number of genres. And it's comparably priced to other synths that are similar in structure.

I don't know what more anybody can ask for. If I didn't already own synths that could make the kind of sounds Hive makes, I would have probably bought it for personal reasons. But because it does sell well, I will be buying it for business reasons.

And I think as far as Urs is concerned, a sale is a sale. Doesn't matter what the reasons are.

Hive's a good synth.

There are lots of good synths.

Well said. My guess is what makes this synth unique from the others is it was designed to be easier-to-use, with a fast workflow. Kind of bread-and-butter like.

[aumordia]

As I've stated ad nauseam before, Sylenth1's limitations are one of it's biggest assets. I personally don't buy any of the obsessive audio comparisons between Hive and Sylenth1 in this thread, they both sound great and are basically interchangeable. However, Sylenth1 is less fiddly for basically the same range of sounds. That and the marginally better CPU usage is why I bought it.

ALL THAT SAID, I am very intrigued that Urs is seriously considering taking Hive in a different direction. In a head to head match against Sylenth1, I obviously don't think Hive wins, but it's not like it's slow to program. It's certainly way faster and simpler than the rest of U-he's oeuvre, and in this regard it bests a good deal of the competition as well. But imagine if Hive could significantly broaden the sonic palette while maintaining it's current level of complexity ("fiddliness")?

That would be very compelling. As much as I like Sylenth1, I keep looking for a complementary synth to broaden the palette just a bit, but most everything out there is much too much for this relatively small task. It really seems like it should be possible to add proper FM/RM support to Sylenth1 (just making the LFO's optionally polyphonic and improving audio-rate anti-aliasing would do the job), but I doubt Lennar will ever do that.

So, enter U-he: imagine taking Hive, and eliminating things that don't really matter (like the modes), and replacing them with things like FM/RM, or maybe even some light WT, who knows. I'm not sure how to do this -- others have tried, like Dune 2 and Spire, and unfortunately they just don't quite hit the mark from an ergonomics perspective -- but it seems like just the sort of a thing an Industrial Designer turned Synth Engineer should be able to figure out.

That is something I really believe has the potential to become the new Sylenth1 in terms of ubiquity. Take the same speed of programming / lack of fiddliness & rabbit holes ("ergonomics"), but take e.g. the 20% of Massive, FM8 -- whatever -- that delivers 80% of their unique sound, and figure out a way to unobtrusively offer that to Hive's users as well.

Do that, and keep the CPU usage in check, and you've got at least one insta-buy from me (and many, many more like me, I predict).

[fluffy_little_something]

Yes, there is something to those limitations. I downloaded the demo again and was immediately kind of hooked again. Sylenth1 feels very immediate.

When I did a short comparison of the basic sound of the two, I had that mix of ugly white noise and thanks for using the demo version in my ears, after 5 minutes I had enough, closed both and switched to Predator That one also feels immediate and sounds tight, which is probably why I chose it to replace Sylenth1.

[pdxindy]

However, Sylenth1 is less fiddly for basically the same range of sounds.

Sylenth is more fiddly... Hive is faster

[fluffy_little_something]

Some modulations are a bit clumsy to set up in Sylenth1, other than that I find it pretty straightforward.
The resizing of the GUI is really cool, as if it were a browser windows. No fixed % values to choose from...

[pdxindy]

Some modulations are a bit clumsy to set up in Sylenth1, other than that I find it pretty straightforward.

yeah, we are talking about 2 pretty easy to program synths... Hive is faster though. Setting up modulations is distinctly easier in Hive and at the same time more powerful. Also, in Sylenth, you can only see the parameters of one FX at a time. Hive you can edit all FX without any tabbing. That is also distinctly easier.

[fluffy_little_something]

Some modulations are a bit clumsy to set up in Sylenth1, other than that I find it pretty straightforward.

yeah, we are talking about 2 pretty easy to program synths... Hive is faster though. Setting up modulations is distinctly easier in Hive and at the same time more powerful. Also, in Sylenth, you can only see the parameters of one FX at a time. Hive you can edit all FX without any tabbing. That is also distinctly easier.

On the one hand it is indeed good to have all FX parameters visible at all times, on the other hand the Hive display is terribly crowded and fiddly for someone with poor vision like me.
When I set them both to identical size, Sylenth1's GUI is a lot better for me to use. The layout and controls are more heterogeneous and thus easier to memorize.

[aumordia]

Some modulations are a bit clumsy to set up in Sylenth1, other than that I find it pretty straightforward.

yeah, we are talking about 2 pretty easy to program synths... Hive is faster though. Setting up modulations is distinctly easier in Hive and at the same time more powerful. Also, in Sylenth, you can only see the parameters of one FX at a time. Hive you can edit all FX without any tabbing. That is also distinctly easier.

No at some point you get information overload. I think your preference might have something to do with how much you like programming synths vs. how much you like completing music.

Just downloaded and tried out Predator. It seems like it's trying to do what I'm talking about, but it goes past the mark. There's too much stuff on the screen that I don't care about, not enough stuff on the screen that I do care about. I don't want to have to paginate for modulators, and there are generally too many choices (128 waveforms and umpteen different effects).

I do like the expanded sonic range of Predator, but I actually would prefer the workflow of Hive. Even so, the fact that e.g. Hive puts all the effects on screen at once isn't really a feature for me, since 90% of the time, when I want a delay, I just want a delay, and I just want to check it off and move on.

It's kind of like toothbrushes. There's 80 different kinds of toothbrushes at the supermarket these days, presumably for a reason. And I'm sure there are toothbrush enthusiasts out there who can tell you all about what makes each particular toothbrush special and why they like it. But for me, it's just a toothbrush, and the thing I really care about is my teeth.

Likewise with synths. The thing I really care about is my music. Everything gets judged by how long it takes me to go from zero to done in the context of finished songs. It's the same way I look at tools in my professional life. Plus, all my music is written for piano or guitar first (or in my head, or on staff paper), and only produced ITB as a final step. I know some genres of "music" are all about messing around with sounds until you get something new, weird, or cool, if that's your thing (or you're a professional sound designer / gaffer) obviously you'll look at stuff differently.

So just as I'm not a toothbrush enthusiast, but I would appreciate a familiar design that helped me reach the back of my mouth easier, I also am not really a synth enthusiast, but I would definitely appreciate a synth that expanded my sonic palette without asking for much more of me than Sylenth1 does.

For reference, here's an example of the kind of music I make: https://soundcloud.com/aumordia/ancient-regimen

I can only at people who think that the choice of Sylenth1 vs. Hive will actually matter in the context of a mix like that.

[aumordia]

pdxindy, post a representative song so I know how to evaluate your "sylenth1 is more fiddly" comment.