CLAP... thoughts?

[Kalamata Kid]

Bidule Version 0.9781 (July 12th, 2022)
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Added preliminary CLAP hosting

[WasteLand]

Yeah agree. I remember that Nektar Panorama originally didn't need wrapper, you could set up plugin control templates for certain hosts. Is that not a thing anymore? Do you have to use the nektarine wrapper? I was also never sure if the whole page could change or if the sliders and some knobs were stuck and only the encoders changed pages. I'd rather do away with faders (unless they were motorized and changed per page), otherwise I'm fine with just encoders and have them all change each page, plus buttons. Kore was another great one. 8 encoder plus 8 buttons. Perfect. If you need more, just get another one and have two pages at a time. It's actually better to have two of the same controller than one big one because then you can have any two controls available at a time. I have a Novation SL mk1 keyuboard that still works great, plus a Novation SL Zero mkII above it, so I get the combination, and a ton of control.

Sorry for going OT. Point is, using CLAP for me, the biggest downside will be that at least VSTs are still Novation Automap compatible. Anything that is multi-touch friendly though I would use that instead of automap anyways. I just really like all the vintage type plugins that map well to the Novation controllers and gives a very hardware like experience.

Nektar Panorama: for Reason, no wrapper. for Cubase, there is still a component, so no need for a wrapper. only with an old Nektarine version you can make the npm files, that work for Cubase and Reaper (if that still works, i must check).

but in there infinite wisdom Nektar decided to do a Komplete Kontrol; Nektarine; a host/wrapper plugin. the npm files of the newest version don't work without Nektarine.
of course the panaroma component for Cubase, and i don't know how it is called or done in Reaper, are both very old.

i had the same setup; Novation 49 SL MK II + Zero SL MK II, both could show other pages.. and next to it the Nektar Panorama P1. work very, very well. the faders, indeed at first i tried to avoid, them, but at some moment...

and indeed: the vintage type plugins worked really well, but Arturia, at some point, a new version; when changing preset, automap didn't update anymore.. so changing presets, making new ones from old ones, or whatever... kills the workflow.. also the new Korg vst's...

well...

it is not on OT? or is it? remote controlling a plugin, there are solutions for it, at this moment all is, well not that good. NKS via maschine mk3, nice, but, i make my own presets, it works, but still..

it is a mess! Push 2 is still good, especially for built-in devices/M4L, there is a third party VST control thingy, that gives access to the knobs and names, and double entries etc. why Ableton can't do it themselves?

OT: remote controlling plugins, bidirectional, i think it is Midi 2.0 spec now.. but it can be also mess, when it gets implemented.

i think the host must always be 'responsible' for it, not a plugin.

[ahmadfarihan]

Will Celemony be on board?

Yes please!

[machinesworking]

Bitwig, Live, and Logic all have some form of mappable parameters like Automap or Komplete Control. In some ways it's better if it's on the host side, but if Clap had some sort of easy way to map parameters in a logical order with quick page jumping etc. that would be great.
I'm really glad Clap is finally a thing, it's been talked about for 20 years now that there needed to be an independent from a DAW or OS developer standard. That said it's kind of crazy to me that we still don't have an elegant simple universal solution to complex plug in mapping to hardware controllers.

[pdxindy]

That said it's kind of crazy to me that we still don't have an elegant simple universal solution to complex plug in mapping to hardware controllers.

Too many variables

[baconpaul]

Bitwig, Live, and Logic all have some form of mappable parameters like Automap or Komplete Control. In some ways it's better if it's on the host side, but if Clap had some sort of easy way to map parameters in a logical order with quick page jumping etc. that would be great.

https://github.com/free-audio/clap/blob ... controls.h

there's the draft extension to do exactly that. No plugin or host has implemented it yet, but I am sure that exact feature will come to be (and in doing so I am sure that extension will evolve also).

[WasteLand]

Bitwig, Live, and Logic all have some form of mappable parameters like Automap or Komplete Control. In some ways it's better if it's on the host side, but if Clap had some sort of easy way to map parameters in a logical order with quick page jumping etc. that would be great.

https://github.com/free-audio/clap/blob ... controls.h

there's the draft extension to do exactly that. No plugin or host has implemented it yet, but I am sure that exact feature will come to be (and in doing so I am sure that extension will evolve also).

it is a start... and it must evolve; what is overlooked, by many brands; buttons; with toggle/momentary/step. a lot or a lot, there are midi controllers who have it... and its for workflow better than encoders... maschine has those buttons, aren't really used. Push 2, yes used, but only for internal devices.. novation SL mk1/2/3.. etc. BCR 2000.... Panorama P1...

and a question; if this, i take this as an example, when this extension evolves (and other extensions), also the host must evolve with it?

[_morton_]

Will clap help with copy protection?

ie, the ability to provide a good method (via group consensus) that doesn't require ilok, c/r or other 'call home' methods that some companies still use

[Hink]

[rezoneight]

Kind of excited that my purchase of Pianoteq 7 from Sweetwater came with a free license of Bitwig (8-track which I didn't know existed) to be able to play around with the new format and some of the plugs that are now (or soon) supporting it. Hoping Ableton support will be forthcoming faster than v12

[machinesworking]

Bitwig, Live, and Logic all have some form of mappable parameters like Automap or Komplete Control. In some ways it's better if it's on the host side, but if Clap had some sort of easy way to map parameters in a logical order with quick page jumping etc. that would be great.

https://github.com/free-audio/clap/blob ... controls.h

there's the draft extension to do exactly that. No plugin or host has implemented it yet, but I am sure that exact feature will come to be (and in doing so I am sure that extension will evolve also).

The best part in the long run for me is twofold with this. My main DAW is Digital Performer, which has never had control surface support for track/plug in automation, only MIDI anyway. DP though religiously supports plug in formats though, so VST, VST3 and AU. Likely they will adopt CLAP and maybe implement CLAPs track/plug in automation.

Basically DP might be like African countries that went from no cell phone service for decades to superior cell reception.

[glokraw]

Kind of excited that my purchase of Pianoteq 7 from Sweetwater came with a free license of Bitwig (8-track which I didn't know existed) to be able to play around with the new format and some of the plugs that are now (or soon) supporting it. Hoping Ableton support will be forthcoming faster than v12

As clap emerges, the Bitwig effects section is pretty awesome as is, and a few great plugins, like BlueCat Axiom, host 3rd party vsts, and that might slip by the plugin-count limitations of 8-Track. In the linux Bitwig, Carla Rack vst can host a huge variety of plugins, including LV2, so adding Guitarix and Calf collections favorites to build effects chains, is a worthy cause.
Cheers

[baconpaul]

https://github.com/free-audio/clap/blob ... controls.h

there's the draft extension to do exactly that. No plugin or host has implemented it yet, but I am sure that exact feature will come to be (and in doing so I am sure that extension will evolve also).

it is a start... and it must evolve;

That's what draft means yeah! The reason its not out of draft is because we haven't battle tested it vs use cases beyond '8 obvious controllers in pages in your daw'

what is overlooked, by many brands; buttons; with toggle/momentary/step. a lot or a lot, there are midi controllers who have it... and its for workflow better than encoders... maschine has those buttons, aren't really used. Push 2, yes used, but only for internal devices.. novation SL mk1/2/3.. etc. BCR 2000.... Panorama P1...

this is interesting. how do you use these on parameters? Set to min/max with press/unpress type thing?

and a question; if this, i take this as an example, when this extension evolves (and other extensions), also the host must evolve with it?

Yes. The way CLAP works is a plugin can query a host for extensions, and host can query a plugin for extensions. This handshake at startup lets you suss out the capabilities of your environment (if you are a plugin) and your target (if you are a host). In this case, with a draft extension, the most likely workflow is in some future CLAP 1.n version bitwig or one of the other hosts will take a shot at implementing it, we will have a comment period, and then at 1.m, m>n it will be promoted out of draft. Also, if a host doesn't provide the extension the plugin can code defensively to never offer up pages and what not.

If you have particular comments about features for this extension, your experience would be welcome in a GitHub discussion on the clap repo!

[teilo]

Will clap help with copy protection?

ie, the ability to provide a good method (via group consensus) that doesn't require ilok, c/r or other 'call home' methods that some companies still use

That's outside the scope of an audio plugin standard. Beyond the API/ABI, you can do whatever you want. A plugin standard neither enables nor prevents any particular form of copy protection. This is a good thing. It will speed adoption, as current developers can continue to use whatever form of copy protection (or none) that they already use.

[vurt]

Bidule Version 0.9781 (July 12th, 2022)
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Added preliminary CLAP hosting

schwing!
now i can clap!!