Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

[SoftSynthLover99]

oops

[IvyBirds]

.Anyway, I get it. You're an ideologue and everything that's said to you will instantly trigger some sort of argument or excuse, regardless as to if it actually makes sense. I love complex synthesizers too, but it's a different thing. Sometimes you want lamb vindaloo, sometimes you just want an aged NY Strip steak. Arguing as to what one of those is "better" is just about as stupid as this conversation.

My ONLY ideology on the subject is the idea that one is NOT better than the other and that's what I am pushing back on. However I end up with hardware purists that want to argue about mythical things like "presence" and "sounds alive" that they can't define or measure and just declare it to be so

I am curious what some of your favorite albums of all time are for synth sounds? And if you can name any albums that are done with only software synths that are considered classics today?

I really dig some electronic stuff like Daft Punk Discovery, Homework, Tron Legacy soundtrack and Random Access Memories. All of those albums are done with hardware synths and Tron and Random Access were done with a huge modular setup supposedly https://www.reddit.com/r/DaftPunk/comme ... nd_random/
https://equipboard.com/pros/daft-punk

Then you have artist like Stevie Wonder who made use of the Arp 2600, Minimoog and tons of hardware synths to produce all time great sounding albums for decades.

Been getting into Stereolabs music and some of the newer stuff does sound like software synths, but from what I see they use rather lesser know hardware synths like Italian made and Moog Rouge etc.

So yeah curious what your favorite albums are and if you have any that are all done on software synths. Would love to take a listen!

I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, my parents were hippies, music and live shows were always a huge part of my family life. My Parents were taking me to see the Dead, and other similar bands as a toddler. So I have pretty eclectic and varied tastes

Most of my favorite albums were made before there were software instruments, and those bands either no longer exist or have no issues touring with digital software instruments and using them in modern albums

Take for instance JMJ. Oxygene is one of my favorite albums, but I also love the modern Oxygene III which when you listen to it made rather heavy use of Dune, Omnisphere, Monark, Spire, Reactor Blocks, and Stylus which is also confirmed in the liner notes

I love the work of Richard Wright from Pink Floyd but haven't been able to see them live since 1994 on Division Bell. He is now also sadly deceased.

I greatly enjoy the music of Toto. They are currently touring with Mainstage rig and software synths but were known for heavy use of Analog synths back in the day. I have seen them over 100 times

I enjoy the music of Styx a lot. I have seen them more than any other band close to 250 maybe 300 times. My parents were taking me to see them in the 1970s. I have already seen them 13 times this year and will be seeing them again at least a dozen more times. I will even take my 85 year old father with me to a few shows. They used all kinds of analog synths back in the day but use digital and software synths now for those parts. Larry Gowan who has been their synth player for 26 years is all software based these days. He is endorsed by Roland Canada and plays a Roland RD-2000 ex for piano sounds, and has a Roland VK8M module for virtual tone wheel organ sounds. All of the Synth Sounds are 100% software based on an computer sitting stage right on the wing run by the tech mainly using tones from Zenology software triggered via Larry playing his Roland RD-2000 ex

I play in a classic rock cover band doing songs from the 1960s-1980s so a lot of that I enjoy

I also listen to a bunch of metal that doesn't use really use Synths very much. Like Metallica which I have seen 6 times already on their current tour this year

And symphonic metal that does use Synths but it's all software based

Besides that I enjoy Brian Eno, his new records are all software based these days. There is band out of Nashville called Hammock that I really enjoy also heavily software synth based. Really a lot of Ambient type stuff most of which is heavily software based

As a member of Gen X I grew up in the 1980s listening to a lot of top 40, I also play in a 1980s top 40 band from time to time. I use software Synths for that and have no doubt the people who made music then with DX7s, Fairlights, Synclavier, D50, M1 would be all software based today. Most certainly you can make all those sounds with modern software rather easily

I have a 25 year old daughter who lives with me and get exposed to a lot of new pop music through her some of which I kind of dig. She is a big Billie Eilish fan and her entire first record was recorded in a bedroom with plugins on Logic. She won the Grammy for Album of the Year, and Best Pop Vocal Album, while "Bad Guy" off the album won the award for Record of the Year and Song of the Year. Eilish also received a Grammy for Best New Artist, and her brother Finneas who recorded it in his bedroom with plugins won for Producer of the Year and Best Engineered Album of the year. It sold over 18 million copies world wide and got billions of streams so I guess the kids like it

I let her pick the music in the car from her phone and have to say I don't really hear anything Synth related that I couldn't do with software

With her and her older brother music was always a part of our lives and I took them to shoes from early on. I was the hero dad for both of them because I took them to see their favorite artists that was easy for my son as he likes a lot of the rock and metal stuff I do, for my daughter that meant Hannah Montana and the Jonas Brothers, now she goes with friends but I will buy her tickets as a surprise

[wikter]

People who drive 1970 Camaros don’t know or care what Diva is. But they do know who Dave Murray is.

I knew about DM just weeks ago, Diva 10 years ago.

[kevinsparks]

What does any of this have to do with Iron Maiden?

[jamcat]

What does any of this have to do with Iron Maiden?

Reference page 49.

[HAL76]

Is the Iron Maiden polyphonic or monophonic?

[HAL76]

Take for instance JMJ. Oxygene is one of my favorite albums, but I also love the modern Oxygene III which when you listen to it made rather heavy use of Dune, Omnisphere, Monark, Spire, Reactor Blocks, and Stylus which is also confirmed in the liner notes

I didn´t know that yet. Compared it a little to Dune and must admit I prefer their sound over Oxygene III although my father already biased me when I was still a kid

[Parco Molo]

The best thing I could have done with this 60-page diarrhea would have been to ignore it.

Oh great creator, why couldn't I?

Mac or PC, dog or cat, beer or wine, 48 or 96 kHz, Fender or Gibson, EQing before or after the compressor, left or right, up or down, day or night, black or white, old or young, mother or father, sister or brother, penis or vagina, brain or heart, big or small, you or me, north or south, apple or pear, THC or LSD, morning or evening, UFO or UAP, comedy or drama, electric or acoustic, studio or live, tiger or lion, iOS or Android, artificial intelligence or natural stupidity...



Originating in Chinese philosophy, yin and yang, also yinyang or yin-yang, is the concept of opposite cosmic principles or forces that interact, interconnect, and perpetuate each other. Yin and yang can be thought of as complementary and at the same time opposing forces that together form a dynamic system in which the whole is greater than the assembled parts and the parts are essential for the cohesion of the whole

[pdxindy]

Mac or PC, dog or cat, beer or wine, 48 or 96 kHz, Fender or Gibson, EQing before or after the compressor, left or right, up or down, day or night, black or white, old or young, mother or father, sister or brother, penis or vagina, brain or heart, big or small, you or me, north or south, apple or pear, THC or LSD, morning or evening, UFO or UAP, comedy or drama, electric or acoustic, studio or live, tiger or lion, iOS or Android, artificial intelligence or natural stupidity...

96 kHz of course

[vurt]

THC or LSD

[SoftSynthLover99]

.Anyway, I get it. You're an ideologue and everything that's said to you will instantly trigger some sort of argument or excuse, regardless as to if it actually makes sense. I love complex synthesizers too, but it's a different thing. Sometimes you want lamb vindaloo, sometimes you just want an aged NY Strip steak. Arguing as to what one of those is "better" is just about as stupid as this conversation.

My ONLY ideology on the subject is the idea that one is NOT better than the other and that's what I am pushing back on. However I end up with hardware purists that want to argue about mythical things like "presence" and "sounds alive" that they can't define or measure and just declare it to be so

I am curious what some of your favorite albums of all time are for synth sounds? And if you can name any albums that are done with only software synths that are considered classics today?

I really dig some electronic stuff like Daft Punk Discovery, Homework, Tron Legacy soundtrack and Random Access Memories. All of those albums are done with hardware synths and Tron and Random Access were done with a huge modular setup supposedly https://www.reddit.com/r/DaftPunk/comme ... nd_random/
https://equipboard.com/pros/daft-punk

Then you have artist like Stevie Wonder who made use of the Arp 2600, Minimoog and tons of hardware synths to produce all time great sounding albums for decades.

Been getting into Stereolabs music and some of the newer stuff does sound like software synths, but from what I see they use rather lesser know hardware synths like Italian made and Moog Rouge etc.

So yeah curious what your favorite albums are and if you have any that are all done on software synths. Would love to take a listen!

I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, my parents were hippies, music and live shows were always a huge part of my family life. My Parents were taking me to see the Dead, and other similar bands as a toddler. So I have pretty eclectic and varied tastes

Most of my favorite albums were made before there were software instruments, and those bands either no longer exist or have no issues touring with digital software instruments and using them in modern albums

Take for instance JMJ. Oxygene is one of my favorite albums, but I also love the modern Oxygene III which when you listen to it made rather heavy use of Dune, Omnisphere, Monark, Spire, Reactor Blocks, and Stylus which is also confirmed in the liner notes

I love the work of Richard Wright from Pink Floyd but haven't been able to see them live since 1994 on Division Bell. He is now also sadly deceased.

I greatly enjoy the music of Toto. They are currently touring with Mainstage rig and software synths but were known for heavy use of Analog synths back in the day. I have seen them over 100 times

I enjoy the music of Styx a lot. I have seen them more than any other band close to 250 maybe 300 times. My parents were taking me to see them in the 1970s. I have already seen them 13 times this year and will be seeing them again at least a dozen more times. I will even take my 85 year old father with me to a few shows. They used all kinds of analog synths back in the day but use digital and software synths now for those parts. Larry Gowan who has been their synth player for 26 years is all software based these days. He is endorsed by Roland Canada and plays a Roland RD-2000 ex for piano sounds, and has a Roland VK8M module for virtual tone wheel organ sounds. All of the Synth Sounds are 100% software based on an computer sitting stage right on the wing run by the tech mainly using tones from Zenology software triggered via Larry playing his Roland RD-2000 ex

I play in a classic rock cover band doing songs from the 1960s-1980s so a lot of that I enjoy

I also listen to a bunch of metal that doesn't use really use Synths very much. Like Metallica which I have seen 6 times already on their current tour this year

And symphonic metal that does use Synths but it's all software based

Besides that I enjoy Brian Eno, his new records are all software based these days. There is band out of Nashville called Hammock that I really enjoy also heavily software synth based. Really a lot of Ambient type stuff most of which is heavily software based

As a member of Gen X I grew up in the 1980s listening to a lot of top 40, I also play in a 1980s top 40 band from time to time. I use software Synths for that and have no doubt the people who made music then with DX7s, Fairlights, Synclavier, D50, M1 would be all software based today. Most certainly you can make all those sounds with modern software rather easily

I have a 25 year old daughter who lives with me and get exposed to a lot of new pop music through her some of which I kind of dig. She is a big Billie Eilish fan and her entire first record was recorded in a bedroom with plugins on Logic. She won the Grammy for Album of the Year, and Best Pop Vocal Album, while "Bad Guy" off the album won the award for Record of the Year and Song of the Year. Eilish also received a Grammy for Best New Artist, and her brother Finneas who recorded it in his bedroom with plugins won for Producer of the Year and Best Engineered Album of the year. It sold over 18 million copies world wide and got billions of streams so I guess the kids like it

I let her pick the music in the car from her phone and have to say I don't really hear anything Synth related that I couldn't do with software

With her and her older brother music was always a part of our lives and I took them to shoes from early on. I was the hero dad for both of them because I took them to see their favorite artists that was easy for my son as he likes a lot of the rock and metal stuff I do, for my daughter that meant Hannah Montana and the Jonas Brothers, now she goes with friends but I will buy her tickets as a surprise

Very cool thanks for sharing! Didn't know that about Oxygene 3 or Brian Eno's later work. Some of the instruments and effects they listed from discogs are "Instruments [Eminent 310, AKS, VCS 3, Small Stone, Electric Mistress, ARP 2600, ARP 2500, Moog Sub 37, OB6, Mellotron D4000, Korg Polyphonic Ensemble, Mini Pops, Metasonic, Digisequencer, TR8, Animoog, OP1, OP12, OP24, Qchord, Analog Keys, Virus, Dune, Nordlead 1, Monark, Rblocks, Spire, Serum, Cognosphere, Taurus1, Micro Monsta, Philicorda" so a lot of soft synths and some hardware too and I think they made a typo and meant Omnisphere instead of Cognosphere?

But yeah Billie Eillish and Finneas do a lot with Omnisphere and even the stock Logic stuff like Alchemy which is great. I think they did incorporate a real upright piano and some cheap weird hardware synth as well for a few tracks I remember seeing in an interview. Personally liked her last album a lot more than the others as the music and overall writing to me is a lot better and not just for teen pop but a good album in general.

I think software and hardware are both at a level that you can clearly produce world class albums with either side, and in the end more about what sound you are looking for or what you enjoy creating with.

Do you find anything you like better about the sound of the synths from the original Oxygene album vs Oxygene 3?

[zerocrossing]

.Anyway, I get it. You're an ideologue and everything that's said to you will instantly trigger some sort of argument or excuse, regardless as to if it actually makes sense. I love complex synthesizers too, but it's a different thing. Sometimes you want lamb vindaloo, sometimes you just want an aged NY Strip steak. Arguing as to what one of those is "better" is just about as stupid as this conversation.

I think you are misinterpreting what I said.

My ONLY ideology on the subject is the idea that one is NOT better than the other and that's what I am pushing back on. However I end up with hardware purists that want to argue about mythical things like "presence" and "sounds alive" that they can't define or measure and just declare it to be so

Yeah, f that dude. I put him on ignore, as he seems to just be a loop of nonsense.

But there was a point there that you are ignoring, or disagreeing with that I think is both important and clear. It is incontrovertibly true that in this stage of software development, getting everything that an analog synth can do perfectly is outside the abilities of a modern CPU to render effectively at higher voice counts.

There's two aspects to speak of in this matter. One is "quality," and this is defined by the ability to produce a result that is free of digital artifacts at all times. Since you brought it up, I'll put The Legend in the category of synths that can do this. I don't notice any digital artifacts, even when I'm using osc 3 at audio rates to modulate osc 1 or the filter. I'd say this is a great example of analog, as a general concept and characteristic, being successfully attained. All the "life" and "presence" is well accounted for.

The second one is "accuracy," as in how accurate does the emulation recreate the sound of the original. Does The Legend sound exactly like a Model D? My answer here is, "most of the time, but not always." I'm going to wave stuff I think is just indicative of specific unit variance, but point to it's feedback. It plain and simply doesn't sound like a Model D getting fed back into itself. It's far too tame, even at maxed settings. My guess is, getting 8 voices of that would have been too crazy for whatever their min-spec processor was.

Now, whether or not you care about that is irrelevant to this argument. I'm sure many Model D owners never fed the headphone out into the input, and lived long full lives. I generally don't care about accuracy that much, as usually it's not going to be a choice for me to own the original. That said, I do own other analog instruments that give me that kind of sound.

As far as the sound of 1970s and 1980s analog synths. I love them. I play in a classic rock cover band and have played in many of them over the years. I use them all the time, but it's not the end all of Synthesis and those sounds are easily achieved with software especially when played live in bars.

I also play some times in a 1980s top 40 cover band and again use those sounds a lot. There is just simply no needs to use expensive and heavy analog synths to play those sounds

People go to bars to fu<k. Any decent ROMpler would be suitable to play top 40 oldies.

I say it's boring because there is nothing really new there. I can hear an analog patch on a record and 90% of the time with very little thought or effort reproduce it with software. I could do so just as easily with hardware but I am just never hauling a bunch of heavy expensive things to the gig and 99% of the audience doesn't care unless you happen to get a synth nerd in the audience, but most of the time these days those people want to know about my Gig Performer rig.

I agree and disagree with you. When I do music for a game, I'm almost entirely using software, not because it has to be moved somewhere, but because it is often in a state of flux. I once did music for a Facebook game called Downtown and it was a jazzy piano and upright bass affair, but with an 808 hip-hop inspired drum part. The hour before we were supposed to go live with it, the CEO of the studio said, "I love the music, but can we make the drums sound less synthetic?" In a few moments, I loaded up a brush kit, made a few adjustments, and he was happy and we all lived happily ever after.

However, I was once working on a "transporter" sound effect and our game theme was OG Star Trekesque sci-fi. I always loved the sound of TOS's transporter sound. Software got me most of the way there, but I really wanted to emphasize the idea that a huge amount of energy was being dealt with during the process, and I couldn't get what was in my head. The Prophet 12 game me exactly what I was after by using it's tuned feedback. It really sounded like something was struggling to keep the energy contained. (note: the game designer decided, for some idiotic reason that he no longer wanted a 10 second countdown to make sure all players were ready and the sound got redone to be about a 2 seconds so all my work was basically for nothing. This also led to people not getting into teams they wanted to be in, so... lose/lose)

The bulk of my gigs are solo piano. I have a great friend that is a high end wedding and event planner. She sends so much business my way for playing piano it's insane. Many of these are corporate gigs during the week which is awesome almost every gig I do I get another booking that I send back through the event planner. None of that is very glamorous of course but it pays the bills and all of them I show up these days with just a controller or two and a laptop, unless the venue has a piano or the client rented one which happens often

I loved watching a Taylor Swift video with my daughter where they started playing the backing track of her piano at the wrong time and she pretends to not understand what's going on. I explained to her that the piano was a shell with some sort of MIDI controller built in, or maybe not even that. Just a prop. People want to see a piano, but most people don't really care about it being a real piano, especially in a stadium concert.

For my personal music at home I am all about things that hardware can't do because I find that more interesting. Thinks like additive and complex deep FM, and sample manipulation

This is another topic, and I don't think anyone is arguing that if you're after what you described with polyphony, software is king. I can't speak to the topic of hardware modular being better, because I hate that way of working and I'm personally satisfied with my options.

I could go on with the rest of my synths, but you get the point. If you're happy 100% ITB, that's awesome. I'm envious. I'm not happy fully ITB... not yet. I do think it's a possibility, but not today. But to stay on this battle when you're clearly out of ammunition... you're just looking weak and confused.

If you think I look weak and confused awesome as you think I am saying things I am not. All of these things are just tools, nothing more and nothing less that help us achieve what we want to do with music. One persons tools are different than someone else's because they want to do different things. That doesn't make them better it worse just different

You seem confused because you're forcing an argument that no one is really having. It's like we're all arguing about who makes the best pizza, and you're saying that your favorite restaurant makes the best Spaghetti Bolognese. That's very nice, and you have the right to enjoy Spaghetti Bolognese more, but that's not the topic. Again, I don't even think that anyone is arguing that software isn't the best solution for polyphonic synthesis exploration. But when someone says they love the sound of their Moog One and you start going on about "additive and complex deep FM, and sample manipulation," you seem confused.

One thing (pun intended) I am curious about is, how close could we get to a Moog One in software. I know you seem to think that "unlimited voices" is a real thing, but in my world, I want to keep everything happening in real time with low latency, so running out of CPU is a real issue. Legend/LegendHZ do not have the same feature set, so they're out. I'll have to think about it.

[Zipede]

The best thing I could have done with this 60-page diarrhea would have been to ignore it.

Oh great creator, why couldn't I?

Mac or PC, dog or cat, beer or wine, 48 or 96 kHz, Fender or Gibson, EQing before or after the compressor, left or right, up or down, day or night, black or white, old or young, mother or father, sister or brother, penis or vagina, brain or heart, big or small, you or me, north or south, apple or pear, THC or LSD, morning or evening, UFO or UAP, comedy or drama, electric or acoustic, studio or live, tiger or lion, iOS or Android, artificial intelligence or natural stupidity...



Originating in Chinese philosophy, yin and yang, also yinyang or yin-yang, is the concept of opposite cosmic principles or forces that interact, interconnect, and perpetuate each other. Yin and yang can be thought of as complementary and at the same time opposing forces that together form a dynamic system in which the whole is greater than the assembled parts and the parts are essential for the cohesion of the whole

If you mate a lion and a tiger, you get a liger.

[zerocrossing]

Is the Iron Maiden polyphonic or monophonic?

Monophonic. If you want polyphony, you'll need Polyphonic Spree.

[zerocrossing]

Oh great creator, why couldn't I?

PC
cat
wine
48
Fender
after the compressor
left
up
night
black
young
mother
sister
vagina
brain
small
me
north
pear
LSD
evening
UFO
drama
electric
studio
tiger
iOS
natural stupidity...