Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[InLight-Tone]

Software is better for the environment, rather than building a ton of soon to be obsolete landfill clogging hardware...

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Why you being such a belligerent douche, chill out man...

Because I take take insults of intelligence seriously on behalf of the concept of intelligent life in the universe.

Join the guardians if it sounds like something for you too.

[vurt]

Software is better for the environment, rather than building a ton of soon to be obsolete landfill clogging hardware...

that we all download from massive server farms and discuss on the internet...

[vurt]

Because I take take insults of intelligence seriously on behalf of the concept of intelligent life in the universe.

know of any?

[Erisian]

Softwear is more comfortable.

[vurt]

Join the guardians if it sounds like something for you too.

i am groot?

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Because I take take insults of intelligence seriously on behalf of the concept of intelligent life in the universe.

know of any?

Yeah, there are.....well...for example...you know....

...

...

...

...the white mice?

[vurt]

Because I take take insults of intelligence seriously on behalf of the concept of intelligent life in the universe.

know of any?

Yeah, there are.....well...for example...you know....

...

...

...

...the white mice?

i am groot!

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Join the guardians if it sounds like something for you too.

i am groot?

Deal

[zerocrossing]

I'm sure he is. I could equally challenge someone with such a device to keep up with me as a live musician.
this is something I see continuously, synth people that appear to enjoy no experience with real instruments, here mistaking what a genuine improvisational tack even is.

Part of the problem is that a “genuine improvisational track” can be many different things. Traditionally it was a bunch of musicians on hardware instruments, drums, guitars, synths, etc. That’s how I learned, but that can be problematic. I want to play far more than I can get together with other humans. These days, I can’t get together with other musicians at all. So, is something like JamStix as good as sitting down with you on drums? Of course not, but it can also facilitate different kinds of outcomes, as well as outcomes that couldn’t happen at all due to scheduling, proximity, lack of space, etc.

The bottom line is, I’m not Prince who could make a call at any hour and assemble a kick ass band to jam or work on a song. I’m not even me from 20 years ago who had a band that got together a few times a week. I often point to the last serious, commercially successful band I was in. We deteriorated after our drummer, who was great, left because he got an offer to play for a country music band that was actually pulling in decent income, as opposed to us, who would get a gig a month where we’d walk with 200-300 each. The software gives me the ability to keep on going when the drummer leaves, and while his ability to improvise is taken, I adjusted my music so that a mechanical sounding drum track is a feature. Also, I do enjoy building a track using Maschine, but I guess that’s hardware, in a sense.

[jancivil]

"it should be easy to post a VST example."
you posted something which is abysmal, taking yourself very seriously with that.
I could post ample examples of what I do with drums using software that are so far beyond that dross it's not even the same universe, but I don't have any insecurities about this whatsoever. there is no burden of proof on anyone but you! The extraordinary assertion of superiority of one kind of tool over another and this is the demonstration? It's laughable, and believe me this response is quite genuine. Nothing has been proven, no one's understanding but your own is in question by that gesture.

You don't seem to recognize how fallacious that tack is. You can't reasonably get away with characterizing this on a personal level, oh you've been called names. I have to say the arguments are stupid. Why one would make such stupid arguments is not within my purview or inclination to worry about. I did say that one's understanding - the universal you, you personally are of no interest - if that is superlative leaves a lot to be desired in terms of musical understanding. Rude, sarcastic... you're losing the argument if you need to color it in these ways. You've brought heat on yourself with this bogus 'I challenge' accusatory tactic.

[jancivil]

I'm sure he is. I could equally challenge someone with such a device to keep up with me as a live musician.
this is something I see continuously, synth people that appear to enjoy no experience with real instruments, here mistaking what a genuine improvisational tack even is.

Part of the problem is that a “genuine improvisational track” can be many different things.

I'm referring to the specfic assertions of the dude in that video.
did you hear it? that's not something from an improvisational musician, it's not in the same universe as.

"I want to play far more than I can get together with other humans."
Most of what I do in the software realm could never be achieved live with humans. A lot of it is going to be impossible to do at all, unless you pay people HUGE sums of money. I'm not exaggerating, I have hired top virtuosi that told me forget it, let's do this instead, close enough for jazz. 'I'm not getting paid enough for that'. I learned to cut my losses.

I do things which a billionaire couldn't have done when I started as a composer. There is nothing in actual hardware synth products that even remotely approach the capacity of software for sound design and orchestration I have available, no one is ever going to make the mistake of trying to put that in one box that isn't a computer able to support a very detailed GUI that requires significant screen real estate.

[pdxindy]

Hey, if it is so sh*t, it should be easy to post a VST example. You don't have to do it yourself, just post a youtube video of someone/anyone doing a similar spontaneous realtime performance using a VST drum machine.

So now it is only the VSTi drum machine, what happened to the Nektar controllers? And if I do, how would you measure objectively that one performance/sound is better than the other? Ask your heavily biased arse?

Dude, I think on the so called concrete operational level of thinking, while you are trapped in magical thinking, where any sensation from your confused butt is taken as universal measure for this and that. Thus we cannot communicate because you are not even answering my objections at the level they are given, but keep reducing the issue to childish nonsense. By all means, live by the Ignorance-is-bliss and remain a king in your fantasy world, then.

Godspeed

If you want to post an example of a VST drum machine controlled by a Nektar controller doing a similar realtime performance from INIT, that is fine.

And I don't think there needs to be any objective measure of which sounds better or who likes it more. Any example that shows a similar level of hands on immediacy and performance capability will suffice as a starting point. Just even get in the ballpark.

I would say a VST drum machine, even with something like a Nektar controller. cannot come close to the performance demonstrated in the video I posted. If you disagree, post an example.

Doesn't matter how much name calling and toxic nastiness you direct at me, that doesn't change the fact that you still have not posted an actual example.

[donkey tugger]

That's not "playing", that's "playing with". If I wanted to watch someone stand around and twiddle knobs, I could organise a tour of a power station control room.

I went on a tour of Heysham Head nuclear power station once. It was very good;

https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/power- ... /heysham-2

The extra finger comes in handy for some of the difficult chords as well.

[zerocrossing]

I don’t personally get inspired by a physical UI vs. a software UI.

Yeah, that isn't intrinsically where it comes from. There are some things that I fundamentally prefer with hardware synths, but they include tradeoffs.

First, being able to use it live with both hands easily. The single touch nature of mouse driven software is a limitation here. That said, the advantages of the computer in so many other ways is why this is a tradeoff. The least of which includes that it's often actually faster to program a software synth just because of the reduced movement. How often do you really use two hands? Ok, live, I did, and that's where I still feel hardware has some advantage.

Related, multitouch isn't really a solution because the physical nature of knobs has some advantage in some cases. Again, I'm talking about live performance, not programming.

Finally, muscle memory can have some advantage, but again with the tradeoffs, this only works when you have fewer synths.

All in all, I'm over most live hardware. I like the maschine hardware and I combine it with a simple mixer controller that gives me level+ control over eight channels. I use that effectively for live stuff.

I’m with you 100%. When I’m programming a patch, having a hardware synth is irrelevant to me, but when I’m playing, I want control. Do I need every single parameter at my fingertips? Nope. The 8 that Maschine shows me is plenty as long as I set up which ones make sense in my context. A good MPE controller, Touché and expression pedals… well that’s a lot to keep me busy with my software and frankly better than most hardware instruments on their own.