Diva Vs. Real Analog

[dsynth27]

You might not lose money on hardware synths, but everyone certainly loses time since there's a lot of redundant tasks when it comes to working with analog.

I do not view my composition of music as a race against time. So that is not relevant to my experience...maybe lost time for you! I enjoy taking my time and listening slowly and carefully. I also enjoy what you may deem "redundant tasks" when using any of my hard/soft gear. Simply put I enjoy absolutely every thing in the process of creatively making music. Bad music or good

[djanthonyw]

So you honestly like having to recall presets?

[hibidy]

I do not view my composition of music as a race against time

Good, because the next version of diva includes this!

[ghettosynth]

I really like the sound of my soft synths today. Since the sound will not degrade over time, the sound will be the same or better in 5 or 10 years.

You've said that. For most people, that isn't really true, well, of course they'll sound the same, but the quality will be insufficient. If this were not the case, there would not be so much focus on innovation and so much marketing effort focused on higher quality "more analog" sound.

I mean, if Zebra was the end all and be all, why even bother with Diva? It's not just differentiated with features, it's differentiated with sound quality derived from technology that takes advantage of more capable machines.

I know guys who still think that the M1 is the bees knees and no other live keyboard is necessary, but they are in the minority, as you will be in a few years.

[dsynth27]

So you honestly like having to recall presets?

??? - reread my post and you make an inference and decide. Not interested in going in this direction...just giving my opinion like you!

[dsynth27]

I do not view my composition of music as a race against time

Good, because the next version of diva includes this!

Funny!

[standalone]

I really like the sound of my soft synths today. Since the sound will not degrade over time, the sound will be the same or better in 5 or 10 years.

You've said that. For most people, that isn't really true

POLL:

What is not true?

*pdxindy likes the sound of his softsynths

*The sound of a softsynth will not degrade over time

*Analogfish

[pdxindy]

I really like the sound of my soft synths today. Since the sound will not degrade over time, the sound will be the same or better in 5 or 10 years.

You've said that. For most people, that isn't really true, well, of course they'll sound the same, but the quality will be insufficient. If this were not the case, there would not be so much focus on innovation and so much marketing effort focused on higher quality "more analog" sound.

I mean, if Zebra was the end all and be all, why even bother with Diva? It's not just differentiated with features, it's differentiated with sound quality derived from technology that takes advantage of more capable machines.

I know guys who still think that the M1 is the bees knees and no other live keyboard is necessary, but they are in the minority, as you will be in a few years.

If an analog synth is the end all and be all why have you purchased more than one? Clearly your analog synth purchases have been inadequate since you have made further purchases.

And you talk as if analog automatically is better. That is only your opinion. And of course you are picking and choosing from decades worth of analog synth offerings, many of which were crap. I could not count the number of times I have heard analog-ophiles talk about how this or that analog filter is crap sounding. How could they possibly be saying that if every analog synth is perfect and there is no differentiation of sound quality?

Zebra is not the end all be all, but that does not mean it does not make sounds that entirely please me. There is a wide array of sounds I can make with Zebra that could not be meaningfully better. I can make all sort of sounds in Zebra that Diva cannot make, therefore in that situation, Diva does NOT have a better sound quality. You are picking one characteristic and weighting it very high (analog emulation), but that does not mean everyone weighs it the same as you. Lots of users and also plenty of developers are not looking to emulate analog.

[Fritze]

I do not view my composition of music as a race against time

Good, because the next version of diva includes this!

This is rediculous!!! At least until it has those features the old offline version has:

http://microsofthitmaker.ytmnd.com/

[standalone]

http://microsoftshitmaker.ytmnd.com/

Link fixed.

[filter303]

http://microsoftshitmaker.ytmnd.com/

Link fixed.

You blasphemer. Didn't you know that this is going to be the daw of the future right after M$ buys cockos and the rest of the bunch..

[Kriminal]

You might not lose money on hardware synths...

assuming you never have to spend money on maintaining them and they only go up in price via the second hand market.

[filter303]

The thing with analog synths is this that sometimes they broke and it's not always possible to get them fixed. I had a waldorf pulse that broke down and I took it to my friend who fixes synthesizers for living. He was not able to get it fixed because nobody has the service manual for this thing.
My friend told me that it's easier that I buy a second one that works.
I did that and now I have a pulse that I keep for spare parts.
Of course this is a cheap synth and it's quite easy to find a new one.
But I think this is a good example on how things can be with hardware synths.

I think I got about 20 synthesizers at the moment and I can honestly say that I am very nervous about the maintenance issues that come with them. So here is another little story about some of the synthesizers I own:

Pulse+:
Needs new pots.. guess what. They are not being manufactured anymore.
I got the subtitutes but it's not the same thing. I need to buy a desoldering gun if I want to detach the old pots in a professional way. If I want a good tool that does this it's going to cost me at least 300 euros or more.

x0xb0x:
One of the leds is not working. I changed it and it didn't change a thing. It also had a broken microswitch but I managed to fix that.
There are some strang problems if I put the decay parameter is over over a certain point. There are also some problems with the MIDI.

Voyager:
The envelopes need to be calibrated because I am getting very annoying click in the attack.. I can't find the information how to do this because moog is not spreading this information around that much.

MKS-50:
The midi activity led works when it wants. Distortion when chorus is used. Had to install new LCD.

MKS-80:
Had some noise when the voices went silent. Somekind of osc bleed that went away when my friend adviced me how to calibrate the dac.
Backlight was dim but I fixed it.

Microwave1:
Had to install new lcd.
Encoder does not work well.

Omega 8:
Problems with one of the voices hanging. It's some problem with the envelope.
Spend tons of time updating it with the overpriced mods that should be with the machine in the first place.

Andromeda A6:
I would like to change the bender and keybed because I can see that previous owner used them a lot. It would be good to have spare voice chips for this thing but they are not available unless you buy the whole soundboards.

SammichSID:
Some of the patches don't like some of the waveforms. Both SID chips are working and I have no idea what's causing this.

Struthi1:
One of the leds is not working. There is somekind of design flaw with the envelope. It's not an error that I did when building it but it's related to how it's designed. I heard this information from the same guy who designed it.

Jupiter8:
Aargh.. where should I start? I need a new pitchbender spring for this thing. It's almost useless as it is ATM. Env 1 decay parameter wasn't working when I bought it. I managed to fix it but it took a lot of time.
The panel needs to get fixed. It has some damage from the previous owner.
This annoys me so much when I look at it.
The black stuff that protects the sliders was all turned into a black powder inside this synth. My mom helped me doing new ones that made from leather. It's better than the originals. If Roland ever remakes this synth, I can lend my mom to be their designer. I also spend alot of time calibrating the oscs.. It was interesting but once I did it I don't ever want to do that again. But guess what: My JP8 needs to be recapped, and thus it needs a complete recalibration. I have no skills how to do them and it's going to take a lot of money to get the JP8 to the condition I want.

SuperBassStation:
Sometimes hangups with midi.

In addition to these, I also have changed the internal batteries to most of these machines. There are also lots of other work included in backing up sounds with sysex etc. It's not always that enjoyable with hardware synths.
I like electronics but sometimes I would rather play music than burn my fingers and smell the fumes of my weldering station.

I bought most of this stuff when I was single. But after I got married my money goes to somewhere else than synths. Even though I should buy some spare voice chips for my synths I can't afford them ATM because even a single chip can cost as much some vst effect.
I love my synths but buying the spareparts is consuming a lot of my time, patience and money. The same thing goes for getting everything fixed.
There can be also a lot of workflow problems that need to be solved if you want to setup everything in a way that works well for you.
I personally have a few midi patchbays that I use. I would rather have 20 midi outputs from my PC but nobody makes such interfaces. I would need to spend more money to get 40 channels of ADC if I want to connect this to my computer.
I've been recording one synth at a time and I am not sure if it's the best way to do it.

Analog synths are nice but they are not for everyone. I really understand people in both camps. Those who don't use hardware at all and those who use it.
If I didn't appreciate the sound of these machines so much I would sell them in a heartbeat. I could make music with a midi keyboard and a laptop but the outcome would be something different than what I do now, so I rather keep these "dinosaurs" around. The sound of analog synthesizers can be a bliss but the thing you have to go trough to keep them working is not. I've spend a lot of time reading about electronics and stuff just so I can do at least a little bit of maintenance myself. Even reliable products need maintenance like calibration, cleaning and lubrication and changing the battery that keeps the patches in the memory. There is no way around this.

I am not one of those guys who plays synths with white gloves but I still think that I try to keep them in good condition. It's not always that easy because most of the best stuff is only available as 2nd hand and they can already need a bit of work when you buy them.
I keep my synths in my homestudio and constantly tell my wife to stay away from my Jupiter but it still is the way it is.
I can't imagine how bad it can get for people who take their synths to gigs etc. My newest synth is a P08 keyboard that my wife bought me as a birthday presend and it's actually one of the few synths that I own which doesn't need any maintenance... just yet. But the sound is not up there with the rest of my synths. I am not sure where the right balance goes between reliability and sound.

People who say that VSTi's don't have any maintenance costs need to think about it again.
New computer every once in a while: 1000-2000 euros.
New version for product A, B and C 500€ etc. This never ends.
Making music costs money. There is no way around it even if you use a computer with 100% free software.

[Aroused by JarJar]

The thing with analog synths is this that sometimes they broke and it's not always possible to get them fixed....

Sounds like Jinx is in the house- have you tried chanting "Azarath, Metrion, Zinthos!"?

Of course, there really isn't such a thing as a "software synthesizer", it still needs a computer to run on, and that's hardware. And that hardware, and interface hardware, can pony up some tales of disaster, too.

People who say that VSTi's don't have any maintenance costs need to think about it again.
New computer every once in a while: 1000-2000 euros.
New version for product A, B and C 500€ etc. This never ends.
Making music costs money. There is no way around it even if you a computer with 100% free software.

That about sums it up, I think.

All this stuff about "investment" seems odd to me- I guess I'm just a fool for thinking that musical instruments are about making music.

[pdxindy]

People who say that VSTi's don't have any maintenance costs need to think about it again.
New computer every once in a while: 1000-2000 euros.
New version for product A, B and C 500€ etc. This never ends.
Making music costs money. There is no way around it even if you a computer with 100% free software.

I would get the computer anyway for my graphics work... but if not, I would still get the new computer every 4-5 years because even if I had all analog synths, I would still have the computer and host for recording. Softsynths have not affected that equation.

In the past 6-7 years I have had hardly any cost for upgrades of synths.

I consider Geist an upgrade from Guru. That has been my only cost. Zebra has been upgraded multiple times but with no upgrade cost. The rest, like Alchemy, which I purchased the day it was first available, have had no major paid update. I purchased Tassman 4 almost 7 years ago and it has not cost me anything since. And so on.