VSTis as good as hardware? Similar to Access Virus Quality?

[Algorythm]

The only way to get great filters is to pay 10 people to do it, thats a fact.

See: Indivisuals here in their 20's who code better filters than the virus as a hobby and offer their creations for free.

They do the same thing with "algorythm".

[/rant over]

I hope that this is not referral to me..

[kritikon]

soundpalace, for pure sound quality there is the korg collection, arturia, and Minimonsta. Thats it. all the other synths mentioned sound like shit if your talking "just" sound quality.
None of those though can touch a virus filter. Just save up and get a used virus b if you want something like the virus, there is no other choice.
Thats not to say that alot of the synths mentioned here are not amazing. Take absynth for example, the sound quality of the oscilators is terrible but when the whole thing comes togather absynth can make sounds a virus could not touch.
Buy a real virus, then look for softsynths that make other sounds to compliment the virus.
The truth is that these smaller software companies can't compete with a whole team of mad german DSP gurus.

There are just so many subjective ipinion and myths in that little fairy tale.

If you like Virus filters, then fair enough, but they are a long way from the be-all-and-end-all in filters for a great many people. I have experienced and owned most of the big name in synths, and Access filters come way down on that list for me personally. Viruses are OK, but nothing whatsoever special. They're really quite ordinary when you start to compare them even to simple synths like Pro-Ones. They pale into insignificance when you start to compare them to real character filters like Korg MS filters, some Yamaha CS filters, Orgon filters, even some Roland filters. Then you get to some of the esoteric modular synths of the past (and present...) and I wouldn't mention Access in the same sentence. If you think Virus is the last name in synth filters then you just show you really haven't lived much yet. Don't worry, you're young, and you will one day get to hear the really good ones in action. It's just a matter of time (and unfortunately...personal wealth. And I'm not being facetious here - it's not a cheap hobby to use character old synths).

And what's that crap about a room full of mad German DSP gurus. No they're not - they're programmers, the same as VSTi programmers. DSP makes no difference apart from possibly processing power in some instances (and often DSP chips have less power). It's the coding behind the DSP that makes any of the difference. A h/w Virus is nothing but a VSTi in a box with knobs and keys. There is no point of difference like an analogue synth.

But the main point is that you stated your subjective opinion as objective fact, when it patently is not. You personally prefer Virus filters to the limited otheres you've heard. That's OK, no problem with that.

There are a great many experienced users who actually rate some other native synth filters over and above things like the Virus. I've owned an OSCar, and I'd use a cheap and cheerful impOSCar over a Virus any day of the week (oh wait...I already do...). Even something like Creakbox has better filters IN MY OPINION. They have a distinctive character rather than the rather tame and too bassy Virus ones. It may just be the presets, but I've always suspected the Virus used some hidden Eq to boost bass, because I've always found their presets very difficult to mix with. The few times I've sat down and really tweaked any Virus...I still couldn't get rid of the annoying bass emphasis.


I use a whole range of tools; digital, analogue, h/w, s/w...the resulting sound, useability and price are the only factors I consider. If a s/w tool can do what a h/w tool can do, then i'll consider using it. If no s/w does what a specific piece of h/w does, then I'll still splash out on h/w. So where oh where does this DSP crap come from? Even with something like a UAD - I know full well it's the s/w coding in the plugins that is the quality factor - the fact it comes on a h/w DSP card is irrelevant and has nothing to do with their quality. The Lexicons I've used derive their quality from the coding behind the algorithms - the blue and black boxes have nothing to do with it (in fact some Lexicons have worked at what should be low quality levels...the Alex/Reflex range still sampled at 36KHz).


Just get out of fantasyland. Virus h/w has nothing to do with the sound of a Virus. Also Virus filters aren't anything close to classics. MS10, MS20, MS50, CS30, CS40, CS40m, CS70, CS80, OSCar, Jupiter6, Jupiter8, Roland202, Roland303, Pro-One, Pro-V, Enigiser, Matrix, VCS3, SEM...I could go on for a long time - those are simply the regular ones I've either owned or had access to in the past that I'd rather have than any version of a crappy Virus and day. That list doesn't contain a single one of the wonderful old and modern modulars that get even better, and can be routed and re-routed all over the place to make the filters do things a Virus can't even imagine.


I knew I shouldn't have read this topic...there's always too little experience shown when "the best filter" etc is bandied about. It used to be h/w vs s/w from people who obviously hadn't experienced the relevant h/w. Now it's DSP vs. h/w vs s/w. And the same applies. Except it's a moot point because the DSP is irrelevant. It's the s/w the DSP chips use that is the important bit. It's either good, bad or mediocre s/w. Same with h/w. But when I read about mediocre s/w being bandied about as superior h/w ...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhh

At least get your argument straight before you spout it.

[Ildon]

Whoa... great post.

Not that I know anything about any of this.

[aciddose]

http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/09.mp3
http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/lame2.mp3

can any software anyone has used do this?

[snooky]

nice post kritikon!

thing is - it's the kids we're trying to convince and most kids owning a virus (either they nicked one or the're dad's bought one for Xmas) says "oooh the filters are teh Shiatz!! - when they really have no idea - they'we just heard it somewhere.

(Addenum - this is also why I want to keep a one release minimum from most of the kvr forums - so the kids can go play in the audio "sand box" 'till they are grown up)

when it comes to quality there are many synths EQUALLY AS GOOD as the virus - it's just that the virus has such a rep among the kids and (in some respects) it's the same syndrome as those who use DSP cards.

Smoke and mirrors and the high price tags - it must be pro gear! (or rather - it should be)

[snooky]

http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/09.mp3
http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/lame2.mp3

can any software anyone has used do this?

do what?

bad basslines with too much resonance in them?

sounds like a bog standard VA synth lead/bass.

[aMUSEd]

Just get out of fantasyland. Virus h/w has nothing to do with the sound of a Virus. Also Virus filters aren't anything close to classics. MS10, MS20, MS50, CS30, CS40, CS40m, CS70, CS80, OSCar, Jupiter6, Jupiter8, Roland202, Roland303, Pro-One, Pro-V, Enigiser, Matrix, VCS3, SEM...I could go on for a long time - those are simply the regular ones I've either owned or had access to in the past that I'd rather have than any version of a crappy Virus and day. That list doesn't contain a single one of the wonderful old and modern modulars that get even better, and can be routed and re-routed all over the place to make the filters do things a Virus can't even imagine.

Yeah, the Virus is a DSP powered Softsynth which is why it also runs on Powercore which uses the same DSP's. There are a number of other DSP powered softsynths available and many that sound great but not necessarily better than native softsynths like Zebra 2 for example - whether any software synths come that close to hardware synth quality I really couldn't say as I've never owned a proper hardware synth though I have many DSP powered and digital synths.

[snooky]

Just get out of fantasyland. Virus h/w has nothing to do with the sound of a Virus. Also Virus filters aren't anything close to classics. MS10, MS20, MS50, CS30, CS40, CS40m, CS70, CS80, OSCar, Jupiter6, Jupiter8, Roland202, Roland303, Pro-One, Pro-V, Enigiser, Matrix, VCS3, SEM...I could go on for a long time - those are simply the regular ones I've either owned or had access to in the past that I'd rather have than any version of a crappy Virus and day. That list doesn't contain a single one of the wonderful old and modern modulars that get even better, and can be routed and re-routed all over the place to make the filters do things a Virus can't even imagine.

Yeah, the Virus is a DSP powered Softsynth which is why it also runs on Powercore which uses the same DSP's. There are a number of other DSP powered softsynths available and many that sound great but not necessarily better than native softsynths like Zebra 2 for example - whether any software synths come that close to hardware synth quality I really couldn't say as I've never owned a proper hardware synth though I have many DSP powered and digital synths.

well I can tell you that the humble fabfilter ONE craps all over my yammy CS10 soundwise.

dsp/native technology is making synth hardware redundant imo.

[aciddose]

http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/analog.mp3

so which software can do this? i havent been able to find any that can do those filter sounds like my analogs.

[Compyfox]

Dunno if this was mentioned yet, but z3t4+ has a preset bank and GUI upgrade to get a "Virus". Also, you might check out some other equivalents (see my sig) and of course you can try the Albino or as very cheap alternative (but not to underestimate) Synth1.

Then again, all that stuff was mentioned already.

[Kraku]

There are a great many experienced users who actually rate some other native synth filters over and above things like the Virus. I've owned an OSCar, and I'd use a cheap and cheerful impOSCar over a Virus any day of the week (oh wait...I already do...).

Word!

I currently own both impOSCar and Virus TI and impOSCar kicks Virus' ass any day when it comes to those ballsy bass sounds and character. I mostly use impOSCar and then fill some holes with Virus TI if impOSCar isn't able to produce something I need for the track.

[TRN76]

Wow... what some posters here do to prove what they know and can.
Well, I can just say that I've tried to get that great lead for my newest project, after spending a 2 whole days (more or less) fiddeling with all the greatest plugs for this kind (zeta, korg, vstation), why didnt I just use my TI at once? It sat right in, actually most presets(suited ones) just needed some eq and I was all set.
I really dont care what others say, maybe its just you guys that like other sound than I do, maybe its you who dont know what me and alot of other people like? I've tried all plugs there is, and there is nothing like it. - Sure there are lots of plugs that do incredible sound, that no TI can do....But there are no plugs that can do the TI. So just leave it, its not even funny to read more threads about it

[fr4ncesco]

Dunno if this was mentioned yet, but z3t4+ has a preset bank and GUI upgrade to get a "Virus"

Those patches don't resemble a Virus at all. I can state this because:

1. the guy who did the patches doesn't have any idea about the Virus sound. In fact he has never played one. So there's no emulation goal.
2. I know that guy quite well

[jplanet]

http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/analog.mp3

so which software can do this? i havent been able to find any that can do those filter sounds like my analogs.

I stayed up last night programming a bank of patches for Minimonsta, several of them were resonant filter sweeps...the filter on Minimonsta can absolutely deliver this sound...

[3*s]

How many of you guys have actually used an Access Virus?