KVR Audio

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:33 pm

jacobh wrote:
aciddose wrote: "any chance of making tune controls for OSC 1 on the OSC page?"

no, since there is no point in doing so. you can accomplish everything you'd want to accomplish by using slightly more effort. generally, you do not even need to do those things though. yes i know it may seem more "neat and tidy" to detune the first oscillator downward, but it has no practical purpose. you can accomplish the exact same thing by detuning the entire synth, but you shouldnt be doing that anyway. it is totally pointless.
Pointless? Are you saying that changing the center point tuning is pointless? This makes it so the average tune of the instrument is more in tune with the other instruments playing.

You can do this now as it is and i told you how.

jacobh · Post by **jacobh** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:42 pm

jupiter8 wrote:You can do this now as it is and i told you how.

Yes, thanks Jup, for pointing me to the other control. I'm just saying now that it would be more effcient to have both osc pitch controls on the same page.

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:48 pm

jacobh wrote:
jupiter8 wrote:You can do this now as it is and i told you how.
Yes, thanks Jup, for pointing me to the other control. I'm just saying now that it would be more effcient to have both osc pitch controls on the same page.

You'll have to wait until someone finishes a GUI with everything on one page.

jacobh · Post by **jacobh** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:51 pm

Well, I'm not saying everything needs to be on one page. I'm just saying both OSC should have tune controls on one page.

Makes for less page flipping.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:18 am

not sure what you mean by phase drift. the oscillators do not have any such feature.

if you mean free-running, this is only possible with a sample which is looped and only triggered once. this is already implemented as an option for the pcm replayer, but you can not get access to it since it isnt on the gui.

the option is that the section before the loop is ignored (or played only once the first time the voice uses that pcm waveform), and the loop then runs free, acting as a wavetable oscillator. it is also possible to modify the loop points in realtime, and use fractional loop points, and so on. none of these features will be available until a pcm editing section is added to the gui. see http://xhip.cjb.net/xhip/todo.cgi

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:31 am

Are there any synths that have pw control for saw and triangle? I'd like to hear what it's supposed to be like, I thought the xhip implementation sounded about right.

aciddose,

I got a new controller and do CC mappings and stumbled upon a minor modwheel thing... because of the possibility to use negative values in modulation depths, the mod wheel (physical) range is essentially halved, and setting it to middle position is perhaps not as free as pulling it all the way down. Any ideas?

And btw what does the param. filter do?

thanks.jon

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:38 am

Using pw a saw and a triangle should be the same thing only with different pulsewitdhs. If you have 0 % you have a saw and if you have 50 % you have a triangle. 100 % would be a ramp.

Xhip does not do this. The ramp pw turns it into a "supersaw" and the triangle pw turns it into a sine.

Not that it is anything wrong with that,it just does'nt work as i expected.

And i wonder what parameter filter is as well.

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:50 am

thanks, of course.

No name · Post by **No name** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:02 am

Wow! I heard the name, but the sounds you can get out of this thing, it's fun! But I do have to agree with a lot of folks, flipping all those pages and tryna figure how to switch pages in the first places makes it a pain in the ass to use, but it sounds very nice!

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:05 am

No name wrote:Wow! I heard the name, but the sounds you can get out of this thing, it's fun! But I do have to agree with a lot of folks, flipping all those pages and tryna figure how to switch pages in the first places makes it a pain in the ass to use, but it sounds very nice!

The latest version has tabs so you don't have to click the empty areas to switch pages.Made a world of difference for me.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:10 am

set up a ramp with high res on the filter. set the parameter filter to very fast (to the right) and then adjust the cutoff. set the parameter filter very slow and adjust the cutoff. the parameter filter is a filter on certain input parameters which is automatically applied in order to smooth out control changes.

if you use variable width ramp waves, the result is like a lowpass filtered pwm. it isnt practical to provide this feature in the audio oscillators since it is very cpu intensive to maintain bandlimited operation and stability. since you get almost the exact same effect by applying a 6db lowpass filter at the same frequency as the oscillator, there isnt much point in supplying the feature either. try it out and you'll see how useless it is.

http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/ramp-tri.adxi
http://xhip.cjb.net/temp/public/ramp-tri.mp3

you have to crank the volume, but that isnt a major issue for a vst since you can adjust it with the host's mixer or whatever. you should notice this is pretty useless as it is just a filtered pwm waveform. if you look closely you'll see it is shaped almost perfectly as if it were a ramp-tri dutycycle modulated waveform.

since ramp/triangle/sine are all the same thing (all variations on the ramp waveform) and it isnt practical or even useful to have their dutycycle adjustable, i made the pulsewidth control multi-purpose and combined the triangle and sine by allowing you to adjust the amount of waveshaping applied to the triangle in production of the sine.

the modulation issue, you'll have to wait until i have the event mapping system on the gui. there you'll simply use the offset and scale controls for your mapping in order to map the input into the range you want. for mod depth, you'd want offset +50%, scale +50%.

jacobh · Post by **jacobh** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:04 pm

aciddose wrote:not sure what you mean by phase drift. the oscillators do not have any such feature.

if you mean free-running, this is only possible with a sample which is looped and only triggered once. this is already implemented as an option for the pcm replayer, but you can not get access to it since it isnt on the gui.

the option is that the section before the loop is ignored (or played only once the first time the voice uses that pcm waveform), and the loop then runs free, acting as a wavetable oscillator. it is also possible to modify the loop points in realtime, and use fractional loop points, and so on. none of these features will be available until a pcm editing section is added to the gui. see http://xhip.cjb.net/xhip/todo.cgi

Yes, free-running sample based oscilator is actually what I mean't. Which makes the phase start position drift so it's different every time you hit the note. So it sounds like you have the feature, it's just not accessable from the current GUI? A pitty we can't access it now, but glad to hear it's in there!

Modifiying loop points in real time? Oooh, fun! Maybe you can make it snap to 0 crossings too, so that it doesn't click? By making the looped area small, and then modifying loop start and end points and slowly sweeping it accross a sample you can get some stuff kinda like time stretching, but with much more control.

Hopefully the loop points could be modified by an Env, LFO, or CC#.

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:23 pm

aciddose, sorry for getting back to you _that_ late ...
but, man, you just did it! the retriggering works great here!!
thank you so much!
now the phaseoffset for each osc independantly and i'm in heaven ...

edit: how about making the phase invert switches no switches, but sliders from 0 to 180 degree (which would be inverted then)? that wouldn't require a drastic gui change ...

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:34 pm

they're not phase inversion, they're signal inversion switches. a phaseshift of 180 degrees would result in exactly the same waveform, just delayed by half of it's cycle length. so, good thinking but nope that control has a completely different meaning and it wouldnt make sense to put a phase adjustment in there.

if you really want to be able to adjust the phase at which the oscillators reset i can add those controls custom for you in another version, just not right now because i'm pretty burnt out coding-wise at the moment.

if you check the todo list the event routing system is actually on the "in progress" section now and the more goofy things i need to do before i get to the real business the longer it'll take. once you have the event routing system in place i can eliminate the kludge controls i added and you'll be able to instead route a "note on" -> "set osc.x phase n%". even stuff like "note on" -> "set osc.x phase y%" "x = velocity" "y = note". and stuff like that. that'll be later on that i implement the variable handling and assignment, but you'll be able to do what you want with the setphase stuff pretty well immediately after i implement the basics.

so, a shorter answer is i'd really rather not add anymore "temporary" kludges since it'll start getting to the point where if i didnt bother doing the kludges i'd have the full system working already and that would be silly.

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:16 pm

ok, of course, fully accepted/understood ...

so i take it you did the version (as it is right now with the triggering issue) just for me??

if so, can i rename the dll, so that i can identify this version?
in respect of that, can i place future versions into the same folder, and my host doesn't get confused, when loading a song, so it loads the correct version?

XHip--Please finish your synth!!