Dark Ambient recording techniques?

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eduardo_b wrote: I would agree if ambient pieces are relatively short in duration, but 20 or 30 minute (or longer) works simply won't hold anyone's attention continually anyway, so the environment within an environment isn't necessarily an artificial construct -- there's an inherent passivity to it because of length. And given how other worldly ambient music tends to be, there's a built-in artifice comparative to "real world" musical instruments. I'm thinking of long classical music works, which are meant to be actively listened to (not background music per se).
To be honest, its pretty academic as far as Im concerned. There's 'a' definition of ambient, by Eno, which isn't 'relevant' to the way I work. There's a wider definition of it that is. I dont particularly care about genres anyway, so when I started using the term 'dark ambient', the perception of what 'dark' and 'ambient' entailed are specific to my own context. If a more appropriate term was there, I'd still not fit that, because my work isnt intended to 'fit' anything; its intended to evoke something, and what its intended to evoke overlaps with the sense of a 'dark ambience'.
Yes, but I would think of that as environmental sound as opposed to ambient music. Now perhaps this is an artificial construct on my part, but I listen to environmental CDs (thunder storms, etc.) and don't think of them as ambient in the way I would music that creates its own environment. Arbitrary, perhaps, but there it is. :hihi:
I dont consider it ambient music either. But faced with it, its almost entirely impossible to be 'passive' about it; same with being drenched in a storm.
Is it a good read then? I've seen it mentioned here, but readability seemed to be in the eyes of the beholder.
I thought it was interesting, yes.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."

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vurt wrote:http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=165606

bout a quarter of the way down page one ya blind git :P :hihi:
enjoy, and as sickle says it may need some enhancements, any ideas would be cool :)
Wow, that transport control is pretty damn sweet. The only enhancement I can think of is my learning how to use Reaktor with some level of competence. Like, can I save the modified wav from within Reaktor (VST or standalone)? I guess I'm actually going to have to read the manual.

Thanks for pointing me toward this cool ens. :D
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey

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eduardo_b wrote: 20 or 30 minute (or longer) works simply won't hold anyone's attention continually anyway
Untrue - there are still patient listeners among us. Over half of my CD collection is discs with single tracks of 60-70 minutes. I rarely record pieces under 20 minutes myself, but it's not ambient music at all, though it is very static.

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dystonia_ek wrote:
eduardo_b wrote: 20 or 30 minute (or longer) works simply won't hold anyone's attention continually anyway
Untrue - there are still patient listeners among us. Over half of my CD collection is discs with single tracks of 60-70 minutes. I rarely record pieces under 20 minutes myself, but it's not ambient music at all, though it is very static.
Well, I wasn't really meaning to say there aren't those who do have the ability and desire to pay attention for a half hour, hour or whatever, but they are the rare exception, not the rule. After all, the typical pop song is under 190 seconds -- for a reason. :)

And is it really possible or even desirable to listen intently for an hour? Unless someone has a lot of free time, listening to music is often while doing other things, so one's attention to the music drifts in and out. And, as with films, more isn't necessarily better, so length itself doesn't confer quality. I like the combination of ambient music that is both appealing to hear but also in the background as part of the acoustic environment. Could be just me. :hihi:

But you also bring up an interesting point about music lengths in general. Personal inclination will cause some to gravitate toward longer pieces, whereas others want to have their aural senses refreshed with something new after six minutes or 10 minutes. The creator of the music has to decide what seems the appropriate length creatively and let listeners choose how they will deal with it. For me, I have no objection to 70 minutes, but I won't be focused exclusively on the music for that amount of time.
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey

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vespers75 wrote:
Frater Perdurabo wrote:
Sickle wrote:So much for technique.

Bring on the pretentious nose-hair pulling!

:party:
:hihi:
Frater Perdurabo....so Aleister, you've returned from the dead to post on KVR? Surely you did indeed intend to endure.... :lol:
93! :hihi: :D :P
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.

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woolyloach wrote:
vespers75 wrote:
Frater Perdurabo wrote:
Sickle wrote:So much for technique.

Bring on the pretentious nose-hair pulling!

:party:
:hihi:
Frater Perdurabo....so Aleister, you've returned from the dead to post on KVR? Surely you did indeed intend to endure.... :lol:
93! :hihi: :D :P
:lol: :lol: :lol:
"a confession without need of absolution, without need of redemption"

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dystonia_ek wrote:Dark Ambient for dummies:

1 - Take any sound source, speech, banging on an instrument, Beatles records, shouting, whatever.

2 - Slow and stretch many times.

3 - Layer a few times, adding great heaps of delay and reverb.

4 - Add even more great heaps of reverb.

5 - Select an appropriately mysterious Old-World name like 'Geschwartzengeruhften' or 'Traumgespritzenereinheit'.

6. Add more reverb, just to be sure.

8 - Take a foggy picture of either 1 - a crypt or cave or 2 - some astrophysical phenomen, then collage with medieval sigils and/or Cuneiform carvings for the cover of your CD, which should be called something like 'X-Cthonian Antiworld Transmissions'.

9 - See yourself magically appear in this week's Cold Spring mailorder update.




(Sorry, couldn't resist).
:lol:
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For ambient stuff, I like to combine various layers of sound design. For instance, the back drop might be a long granulated sound of a synth pad. But ontop of that, I like to might in acoustic ambience, fx sound delaying endlessly, loads of reverb etc. Sometimes I like to set up delay feedback changes, send that to a distort and reverb, automate the settings and have it panning around in the mid ground.

Imo, complexity comes from the layering of textural elements. Just relying on synths can lead to a sterile, uninteresting sound, for me atleast. Perhaps that just means I need to brush up on my synth work, Im not sure! But I do get the best results from combining layers of sound design material.

TB

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TankGirl wrote:Thanks for all the great info in this thread and the link to Paul's Extreme Sound Stretch. :D
yea what a great program, says it can stretch this 5 minute pad i have to be 9876 years long :)

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