LA2A, Fairchild, 1176LN, Neve 1093, ... plug in, plug away

[Compyfox]

Hah, yeah, that's also a possibilty... building an own amp/channelstrip. But actually, that's not the point of this thread. Still a nice throw in though.

[mangel1234]

Perhaps 'some' of the best purpose of this thread is to help steer people away from losing hundreds and hundreds of $ where it isn't necessary or even beneficial.

Having said that, you could as easily say "what is the point in having any vst plug-ins any way?" Some of them are for modern, straight forward processing, and some are for emulation of other processes.

I was thrilled to see in the argument "Yes and yes.
But then, especially in case of the "analog" items, very often the entire signal chain is responsible for the final result."

This is what I've spent my development time on for over 1.5 years and there is a great sounding process that can achieve something that sounds good, is beneficial, uses some of the nicer sounding artefacts of using analog gear, serves the purpose of trying to bring this dimension of flexibility of analog sound into the digital realm (not the typical large developer hype -warm it with tewbs-), and doing so with an entire signal path.
Input-tape track-input return-group bus-2track out- for each DAW channel.
There are some great emulations of individual gear, and I hope individuals with the real gear will contribute their lot to he Nebula community while vst developers- the talented individual ones!- continue to improve on their concepts and come up with new ideas that are better than old gear.

It does make sense to offer some designs based on familiar- in most larger modern facilities- vintage gear- in plug-in form.

Specifically mentioned was the Toneport in this thread. The comments were right on, and something that I've agreed with in the past- because there is no question of the validity. The beginning of the signal chain is where the most important part of the emulation begins. If the input of the Toneport isn't as good as an API, Neve, or Avalon, then the resulting harmonics distortion, eq filters, and output to imaginary tape are marred by working on a degraded source. BUT, if you have excellent outboard preamps, then the plug-in version of Line6 plug-ins can now do their thing more helpful. First, get the recording in the DAW at a high quality, then additively give the signal what it needs. The Line6 preamps are very nice, very accurate at certain settings, and unusually different at other settings (I'm not sure why they went the distance to get so much right, only to do weird things at other settings...). But, for the person that has the choice of recording with essentially nothing to process with, versus having a Toneport for just over $100, I don't see how it can be so terrible for the beginner to have the amps and preamps/eq's of that calibre to work with. With an inexpensive USB Sound Card, a beginner can get their free 32/64 track multitrack recording software, and come here and get the most amazing range of free vst developments. From there, I hope threads like this help new users avoid spending the Waves, URS kinda money when it isnt necessary, or always the best choice for them.

[herodotus]

So, another questions:
Are these famous hardware units really the be end of all?
Is there no better design possible?

Of course there are "better" designs possible, but none available in software land comes anywhere near to even "as good".

Really?

Why do you say that?

[Arksun]

I think threads like these can be useful in steering us towards a plugin that we haven't tried before or never even heard of before, but ultimately it can't tell us what sounds good, because one persons favourite is anothers piece-o-crap that they'd never use.

But I'm just sitting here on this lazy sunday and its like I have to pinch myself over just how much power we have now.

I mean think about it, plugins approaching analogue compressors.

If we didn't have compressor plugins, we'd have to buy an analogue one, very expensive. So ok you have your unit great, sounds fantastic, now how the hell am I gonna insert this on multiple tracks, I can't!. Either I sell the house and buy 20 of them, or I have to painstakingly run each one through the hardware unit and record it. But then after rendering a few ya might think hmmm, shoulda used a bit more attack on that one. Producing a piece of music will take a year and drive you nuts.

We're comparing to the most famous and well loved of hardware compressors that these plugins are striving for, yet real world use of hardware compressors is more about the ones you'll find on a mixing desk on a per-channel basis.

Yet here we are, we can load our LA-2A or 1176 clone in an instant on any virtual channel.

And in this respect any lack of quality is far outweighed by the hassle of trying to wire up and render through a real LA-2A per track, one has more time to focus on actually tweaking the settings, listening and get it sounding just right.

We are very very VERY lucky people to have this technology and its only going to get better and better

Sorry just had to have a little sunday positive rant

[Per Lichtman]

And in this respect any lack of quality far outweighs the hassle of trying to wire up and render through a real LA-2A per track, one has more time to focus on actually tweaking the settings, listening and get it sounding just right.

I was just talking to some young audio engineers about the same thing as your post and couldn't agree more about the new options that plug-ins offer. Based on the rest of your post, however, I think you meant "is far out outweighed by" instead of "far outweighs", since it seems like you were emphasizing the hassle rather than the quality disparity. If I was wrong, then feel free to let me know and coffee will be on me next time your in Pasadena.

[Arksun]

And in this respect any lack of quality far outweighs the hassle of trying to wire up and render through a real LA-2A per track, one has more time to focus on actually tweaking the settings, listening and get it sounding just right.

I was just talking to some young audio engineers about the same thing as your post and couldn't agree more about the new options that plug-ins offer. Based on the rest of your post, however, I think you meant "is far out outweighed by" instead of "far outweighs", since it seems like you were emphasizing the hassle rather than the quality disparity. If I was wrong, then feel free to let me know and coffee will be on me next time your in Pasadena.

oops, my bad, should have paid more attention in english classes

*edits and changes previous post*

[Compyfox]

We are very very VERY lucky people to have this technology and its only going to get better and better

Which is the very reason I posted in the first place, so thanks for bumping that one.


To me it's not really that important anymore "what to get" (with some minor exceptions of course) - heck I have a HDD full of stuff that I barely even use. It's just that I peaked my limits and I want to know what's below the hood to actually grasp the possibilities that were offered to me.

Granted, to some this is yet-another "favourits" or "what-to-get" thread, to some it is a warning of "what-not-to-ger-to-sound-like-everyone-else", but to me it's very valuable info.

You can't learn enough nowadays, not to mention that you learn something new everyday.

[EnzymeX]

Great thread. I'm glad to see it lasted long enough to get a definitive list built. I have the URS Channel Strip Pro and it's good to know when I select "1972" is a class a/b Neve emulation for example.

[mangel1234]

I like the point that you are making Arksun.
I find myself in the position of being amazed at the tools in front of me and remind myself to be appreciative, especially when the minor computer glitches happen, or when I need more memory for a section of a mix.

The one thing I would add is that I hope people will learn to really get to know what they have. Imagine if this were a studio scenario where every week someone came by and installed a new $2000 compressor or eq, or channel strip. It could be difficult to become an expert in the awesome variety and best combinations. It's good to learn the secret-weapon side of awesome plug-in based emu's like the UAD-1 Fairchild, where there is such a range covered, and truly it can still stand up against many a modern program compressor.

It can be easy to get spoiled, and also be easy to not dig deep enough to learn the more intricate tools.

This is definitely a great thread!

[buscemi]

Definitely some good points mangel1234. I love having the UAD card and its plugs at my disposal and consider them to be a suite of tools I need to master (no pun intended) as part of my core competency. I find myself reaching for a select "suite" of other plugins and many of those are either tight/mainstay utilities (Ozone and Melodyne come to mind), very simple but effective, quite unique, or all of the above (Audio Damage plugs come to mind, and I love VibeEQ even though I have the stellar UAD EQs for certain tasks) but once I have too many choices facing me I realize I am getting swamped.

[Spookyrockstar]

Hey Compyfox,

I've only skimmed this thread, but has anyone mentioned LiquidMix?

Again, I don't know offhand, but was recently shown a list of all the Liquidmix sources/emulations by someone who has one and loves it.

May be worth checking out. I own two UADs myself, btw and love those too.

Also worth noting that no matter how powerful a computer, the outside DSP is always welcome.

Good luck!!

[buscemi]

The Liquid Mix seems to be getting good reviews in the magazines lately, though I thought there were some issues reported early on. It sounds great and there's a new lower-end version without the screen coming out in the near future. Looking into this and loving that it has Distressor emulations.

[Compyfox]

I've only skimmed this thread, but has anyone mentioned LiquidMix?

Actually the "core" package was listed somewhere in the middle of the thread.

Also worth noting that no matter how powerful a computer, the outside DSP is always welcome.

True, since this doesn't eat any CPU power. Then again, some people are not able to access that due to several reasons, so an "all in the box" solution is the only option.

[Spookyrockstar]

I've only skimmed this thread, but has anyone mentioned LiquidMix?

Actually the "core" package was listed somewhere in the middle of the thread.

Also worth noting that no matter how powerful a computer, the outside DSP is always welcome.

True, since this doesn't eat any CPU power. Then again, some people are not able to access that due to several reasons, so an "all in the box" solution is the only option.

To the OP: Okay then, disregard the first part of my post. Guess I should read more thoroughly..And if you can't use an external and would prefer to use in the box. Well, disregard my post entirely. I won't be hurt.

EDIT: Oh wait you are the OP. Ignore at will.

[Compyfox]

Haha, noted.

Nah seriously... if I had the money, I'd get one or two of the "usual suspects" myself, but then again... I have so many tools already where I only scratched it's surface.