There's no "rift" at all. Just as musicians learn that an F# and a G♭ are played the same way (on a discreet instrument), so too do they learn that E# and F are played the same way. It's no more confusing than any other enharmonic spelling. An E# in the key of C# isn't confusing — it's the major third. What would be confusing is seeing an F♮, which doesn't belong in the key of C# at all.echomusic wrote:There is no E# B# except when explained in theory. It's a rift between following the rule of there being no E# or B# and using theory to apply it to performing.
Ask me anything Music Theory and I'll answer
-
- KVRist
- 54 posts since 13 Aug, 2009
You're bad... with my help, you could be the worst.
-
- KVRAF
- 6374 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
Be interesting to quote that one at Ross Duffin (author of "How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony"; http://music.case.edu/duffin/) to see how far the veins on his neck stand out afterwards.echomusic wrote:There is no E# B# except when explained in theory. It's a rift between following the rule of there being no E# or B# and using theory to apply it to performing.
Last edited by Gamma-UT on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Winstontaneous Winstontaneous https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=98336
- KVRAF
- 2592 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Another Green World
Ha, I've come to a similar conclusion. It's especially ironic that this happens in discussions of harmony, of all things...bernhardtjeff wrote: 1) Why do discussions about music theory online often turn into emotional, combative riots?
IMO W.A Mathieu is an example of someone who truly embodies an awareness of harmony from macro (cosmic/universal) to micro (music theory), and shares it in his writing.
-
- KVRian
- 1084 posts since 12 Sep, 2008 from Your basement
Loved him in The Odd Couple.Winstontaneous wrote: IMO W.A Mathieu is an example of someone who truly embodies an awareness of harmony ...
-
- KVRian
- 1050 posts since 4 Nov, 2003 from Washington DC
What's the difference between a Key and a Scale?
Why does Randy Jackson from American Idol think everyone is 'pitchy dawg'?
Why does Randy Jackson from American Idol think everyone is 'pitchy dawg'?
-
- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
I don't even remotely understand that sentence. What "up" and what "down"?echomusic wrote: The melodic changes from a Major to minor are whole steps. 5 up for the second octave, 2 down for the same octave.
Well, that's called "outside" playing and it seems to be working quite well for some people. Basically, what you do is to "superimpose" a progression over, say, a modal vamp.My point was that it's a horrible change to drop in progression changes as a solo when everyone else is staying in key. Have you heard a C Major with those progressions on top at the same time? I say it again... Yikes.
Tritone related scales work quite well, too. For instance, it might be a nice idea to play Eb minor over an Amin chord. Obviously, at one point in time, you better resolve to the original key.
- Sascha
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
-
- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
G#-B#-D#-F#Ogg Vorbis wrote: What would the notes be for the dominant chord in C#m?
And yes, you DEFENITELY use B#, even on sheets. It's absolutely important to keep the third enharmonically and (probably even more important) visually correct. Using a C would be plain wrong on many accounts.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
-
- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
It's not a rule of thumb by any means. The rule of thumb, if at all, would be to write things enharmonically correct. Ogg Vorbis' example of a dominant chord in C# minor was just about perfect. A G#(7) chord simply features a B#, not a C. And, while you keep saying one usually shouldn't see this on a sheet, you are eternally incorrect about it.echomusic wrote: Like I said it isn't the theory that we're in disagreement over, but me saying that you should see it in sheet music, which I still stand by as a rule of thumb.
Tell me whatever you want, but this looks like a fine major triad:

This however doesn't:

- Sascha
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
-
Aroused by JarJar Aroused by JarJar https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=191505
- KVRian
- 1048 posts since 16 Oct, 2008
Superb comparison you've got, er, there.Ogg Vorbis wrote:
You don't arbitrarily respell things in music any more than a professional writer arbitrarily substitutes "they're, their and there" because they are the "same word."
-
- KVRian
- 546 posts since 19 May, 2005 from KanaDA
Hmm am i the only who have seen Dexter's site?
"FREE Video Reveals The #1 Secret A Struggling Artist Used To Quit His Full-Time Job As A Security Guard & Make Money In Music By Becoming A Master Musician & Performer!"
"The Top 3 Reasons Why You Probably Won't Get Funding For Your Music Projects"
"Qualifying for Attentiom From Record Labels"
"Principals For Success In The Music Industry"
"Successful Strategy For Creating Your Portfolio"
"Industry Standards For Creating An Image"
"Creating And Targeting Your Market"
"How To Create A Music Program That Pays You Even When You're Away"
We should listen to this guy more!!

"FREE Video Reveals The #1 Secret A Struggling Artist Used To Quit His Full-Time Job As A Security Guard & Make Money In Music By Becoming A Master Musician & Performer!"
"The Top 3 Reasons Why You Probably Won't Get Funding For Your Music Projects"
"Qualifying for Attentiom From Record Labels"
"Principals For Success In The Music Industry"
"Successful Strategy For Creating Your Portfolio"
"Industry Standards For Creating An Image"
"Creating And Targeting Your Market"
"How To Create A Music Program That Pays You Even When You're Away"
We should listen to this guy more!!
[-'/_-O-_\'-]
-
- KVRian
- 797 posts since 23 Apr, 2009
link plz... wait nvm found it. Dexter have you got any music of yours on the web? Interested to hear this self proclaimed master muso.EkleipSiS wrote:Hmm am i the only who have seen Dexter's site?
-
sakethencamenone sakethencamenone https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=175880
- KVRer
- 22 posts since 12 Mar, 2008
Hi there Dexter. I have a quick question. When I wish to make a key change, say from a major to a relative minor, do I need to use a pivot chord to make the change, or can I just swith staight into the new key? Also, when changing keys around the circle of fifths, is there some kind of formula to know which pivot chord to use when changing keys? Thanks very much for your help.
Last edited by sakethencamenone on Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.