Which Daw has the tightest internal midi?

[Hink]

So you're simply stating your opinion on Firewire. gotcha. I can't imagine Firewire going anywhere to soon and P-cal (PC Audio Labs) offers Firewire 800 on all their audio pcs. I think too many big players are too deep into Firewire for there to be much to worry about in the near future.

i dunno Hink... when i was searching for a laptop i did not find ANY mainstream computer with a FW port. then, this USB 3 thing and eSATA coming along, it might be tempting to some manufacturers to take advantage of the inherent "awesome!" factor. it will take it's time, though.
sorry for the OT.

I see sonica has a laptop with eSATA but they have firewire too, I found Rain with firewire still and of course P-Cal does as well. I reckon those are three of the most common custom built audio computers. RME, MOTU, Presonus all have Firewire cards. (Presonus is mostly firewire) I'm not surprised that there isn't mny mainstream laptops with firewire but then really never was many. My daughter's dell desktop I bought in 06 didn't, in fact the only computer I know in my family or friends circle with firewire is mine. But again that isn't new, it didn't just start vanishing on mainstream computers recently. Besides external drives that often have both firewire and USB I cant thing of many maintream hardware that uses firewire.

I suspect for a while anyhow it's going to be an evolving competition in the audio world and I just dont see firewire being a thing of the past for audio. If that were to happen there would be some very upset customers, there are a lot of high priced firewire cards out there. Too many for it to be obsolete in my opinion.

Of course everything changes so fast who knows

EDIT according to what I just read usb 3.0 is suppose to "crush" eSATA and firewire. But even with that firewire studios can often do daisy chain. That's a lot of hardware to change out quickly.

[Hink]

before I post this I want to say that I'm not arguing anything, but I came across something else. I have to admit I was a bit naive on eSATA so any points I might stumble across are a result of educating myself...thanx for the inspiration to do so. Anyhow

Of course, there are other factors to consider; the FireWire 3200 standard is also in the works and promises to allow 3.2GHz speeds on existing FireWire 800 hardware. USB 2.0 generally doesn't meet its theoretical maximum throughput, due to its dependence on hardware and software configuration, where FireWire gets much closer.

It's hard to say whether USB 3.0's updated architecture will still use more CPU time than FireWire does.

[JoseC.]

So you're simply stating your opinion on Firewire. gotcha. I can't imagine Firewire going anywhere to soon and P-cal (PC Audio Labs) offers Firewire 800 on all their audio pcs. I think too many big players are too deep into Firewire for there to be much to worry about in the near future.

I'd better call it an educated guess betting against your imagination (gotcha?). Anyway, and since you wrote above that you already got some more info about USB 3.0, you can do an educated bet, too.

But seriously, I don't intend to turn this into an argument about the obsolescence of Firewire, this is just an example of what I said before about "disposable" (I know, I know) gear. Please compare the expected working life of a, say, well maintained Fender Bassman (since you are a guitar player)against a well maintained Firewire audio interface.

And all this is not as off topic as it would seem, because if sync of DAW's with external gear were easier and tighter we could do less processing in the box and use more of the perfectly working gear that we already have, and we would not have to dispose of our computers this often. (OK, this last paragraph is almost a disclaimer, so what...)

[Hink]

So you're simply stating your opinion on Firewire. gotcha. I can't imagine Firewire going anywhere to soon and P-cal (PC Audio Labs) offers Firewire 800 on all their audio pcs. I think too many big players are too deep into Firewire for there to be much to worry about in the near future.

But seriously, I don't intend to turn this into an argument about the obsolescence of Firewire, this is just an example of what I said before about "disposable" (I know, I know) gear. Please compare the expected working life of a, say, well maintained Fender Bassman (since you are a guitar player)against a well maintained Firewire audio interface.

which imo is a direct result of music manufacturers hooking a bunch of fish but never landing them. There is no reason not to expect a firewire card to last 50 years but the technology would not be there anymore. Disposable/planned obsolescence? 6 of one and half dozen of the other I guess

[asseca]

During my researches in to this I have found that certain Daws just sound so much tighter/groovier/Together than others, although its really subtle.

Do you mind telling us which DAWs you have found that sound "tighter" ?

[P.T.]

I think firewire is just losing out to usb in popularity.
Which is superior isn't always the factor in this.

[LawrenceF]

Does it occur to anyone that modern daw musicians spend an inordinate amount of time talking about and/or discussing/debating and/or worrying about underlying technology?

It used to be...

"Man... I hear Korg is coming out with a new keyboard workstation that will allow me to record 8 audio tracks along with my midi sequences. Cool!"

Now it's common talk about FPU's and data connections and CPU's and dither theory and eSata and FW bus latency and yada, yada. Stuff that used to be the exclusive domain of technical engineers. Now you sometimes have to understand some of that stuff to make music without potential interruptions or issues.

Times... they be 'a changing... ... perhaps not for the better.

I kinda don't get it sometimes for people using desktop computers. Just get a good PCI card and be done with it.

[Fragile_Frankie]

Renoise IS a DAW, ffs. Guess to some people, it's not a DAW unless it has a piano roll.

*cue smug douchebag eye rolling emoticon*

[Hink]

Does it occur to anyone that modern daw musicians spend an inordinate amount of time talking about and/or discussing/debating and/or worrying about underlying technology?

It used to be...

"Man... I hear Korg is coming out with a new keyboard workstation that will allow me to record 8 audio tracks along with my midi sequences. Cool!"

Now it's common talk about FPU's and data connections and CPU's and dither theory and eSata and FW bus latency and yada, yada. Stuff that used to be the exclusive domain of technical engineers. Now you sometimes have to understand some of that stuff to make music without potential interruptions or issues.

Times... they be 'a changing... ... perhaps not for the better.

I kinda don't get it sometimes for people using desktop computers. Just get a good PCI card and be done with it.

first of latency is not, nor will it ever be an issue for me, but I have to say that having both an awesome PCI card (Emu 1820) and a great firewire card on my desktop your logic is a bit askew for me. Cards come in all flavors, I like the Firestudio as my primary card because it's one rack space with 8 trs/xlr inputs on the front. The flexibility of using the 1820 really outside the box is awesome (yes it's in my computer but I get most most usage from it before the signal goes into my computer/host). Between PODs, my Boogie SOB and my Marshall Pre I can get performance quality tone for anything I want. With my re-amping signal going in direct I can use that tone, not use it, add to it. But take that all away, I have 16 analog inputs (plus a stereo return) available to me at all times, with or without fx (or both), 10 trs/xlr on the front.

It depends on what one's needs are, for me the sky is the limit and because of my use of direct monitor I need not worry about latency. (of course being able to monitor with fx but not record them as well, is the prime objective). It wasn't long ago that re-amping wasn't for me, now suddenly I have GR4, GTR3.5, POD Farm and last week was added Vandal. To accomplish this with another PCI I do not think is possible without patchbays. This is important to me, to have most of my inputs in front of me like this, please good sir tell me of the PCI card that gives me a 1 rack space with 8 trs/xlr inputs on the front. (of course the emu dock is a half space adding two more).

Now for me to tie this to the OT a little let say that benefits over stats wins every time for me, like the concept completely inside the box midi being loose. It isn't, maybe on paper, maybe if you check it you might be .1ms off (more likely .001 or less), but c'mon...you can't hear or feel that so why worry about it? Also for some of us we want our songs a little loose, too tight is too stiff and rigid YMMV. In the same line of thinking I don't think that people are going to notice any sound lacking from my soundcard rig. I know I'm not upgrading to anything anytime soon, so once again my benefits win out over what's on paper. (note I say benefits, imho to many people buy features...I look for benefits)

[LawrenceF]

This is important to me, to have most of my inputs in front of me like this, please good sir tell me of the PCI card that gives me a 1 rack space with 8 trs/xlr inputs on the front. (of course the emu dock is a half space adding two more).

Obviously your setup works fine for you.

Lots of ways to have accessible XLR's on a rack feeding a PCI card though. They (the XLR's) don't have to come with the PCI card to be in a rack space and feeding it from the front. It was a general comment about (for instance) people that may build small new desktop rigs but skimp right out of the gate on bandwidth. Not you... I'm sure you're fine.

So let me rephrase so as not to offend anyone else...

A person building a new desktop daw *might* be better off spending on a decent PCI audio card and just pushing ADAT in and out of it... *if* he plans on interfacing with a lot of hardware in a mixerless environment. To not skimp on I/O bandwidth out of the gate with a USB or FW device... if you can afford not to.

After that it's just a matter of attaching devices that spit out ADAT like Behringer ADA8000, Digimax mic pres, whatever... as you need and/or can afford them. One thing for sure, unless you plan on recording the Philharmonic you'll never choke the data pipe.

So we're on the same page Hink. No argument from me sir.

[ckatrun411]

Renoise IS a DAW, ffs. Guess to some people, it's not a DAW unless it has a piano roll.

*cue smug douchebag eye rolling emoticon*

Renoise is a modern tracker with exceptional abilities. No where does the company even claim to be a DAW.

www.renoise.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_workstation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracker_(music_software)



Try recording a band in Renoise. Something like, a school marching band. That is pretty simple, right? Certainly not the Philharmonic, certainly not the PT acrobats of Kings Of leon, and the like.

You can record any marching band you like in a real daw. Certainly not in Renoise. But go ahead, give it a shot. If you can do it, pass the ketchup, on that day...... I'll eat my hat!

[Hink]

ummm...you didn't offend me Honestly I think you don't have it in you to do so

[LawrenceF]

ummm...you didn't offend me Honestly I think you don't have it in you to do so

Cool man. It sounded like you thought I was attacking your choices.

[Fragile_Frankie]

Renoise is a DAW with a tracker interface. And that's a fact, Jack.

[Fragile_Frankie]

Oh wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute... what's this here?



http://mirror.renoise.com/about/reviews/


"If you're looking for a powerful digital audio workstation that doesn't come with a heavy price tag but is supported by a huge number of enthusiastic users, Renoise will certainly appeal."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:D ... n_software

Ooh, what's THAT on that list?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renoise
"Renoise is a contemporary digital audio workstation (DAW) based upon the heritage and development of tracker software. "

ORLY

I guess you can go ahead and shut your pie hole right about now.