preset free synthesisers

[vurt]

buzz,

oh, were back to cats then?
its my cats name!

thanks for the input, and nice to see you considring my idea as a possibility with the non factory bank option
off the top of my head i know absynth and reaktor both can open blank banks, and many synths are easy to overwrite, but a bank of init patches might be a good addition to more synths.

[vurt]

im willing to drop the idea of a reduced price dave
and i understand presets are important to many folk, for whatever reasons from learning a synth or just to get productions done quickly.

dont pay for much myself either but its a good job you dont, day off with the back eh?

yes, and cant get to GP till weds....meds run out today

sorry to hear that mate
as i said in your other thread, i feel for you.

[Teksonik]

I just don't get the anti preset sentiments. What's so wrong with taking musical inspiration from someone elses presets? Do we have to do everything by ourselves now or it's considered cheating? Who uses drum samples? Sorry cheating. Once upon a time there were these things called "Bands" where several musicians got together and shared their musical ideas and creativity. When did it become taboo to take inspiration from others?

Like I said before creating patches is a passion of mine but I'll still use someone elses presets in a flash if I find them musically inspiring. If you buy a synth and none of the presets fit your style I wonder why you bought the synth in the first place. It may not be best suited to your style.

No matter how good you are at creating presets you can always learn from the patches others create.

You know you can simply ignore the presets that come with a synth?

Some people simply don't have the time to create a new patch every time they load a synth or have the desire to use a patch created by the same person every time....(the Gene Pool isn't very deep with only one sound designers take on a synth).

And so on and so forth. Bottom line is no commercial synth can be a success without having presets for those people who have neither the time or experience to create their own patches or the snobbery to feel that using someone elses patches is cheating.....

[vurt]

I just don't get the anti preset sentiments. What's so wrong with taking musical inspiration from someone elses presets? Do we have to do everything by ourselves now or it's considered cheating? Who uses drum samples? Sorry cheating. Once upon a time there were these things called "Bands" where several musicians got together and shared their musical ideas and creativity. When did it become taboo to take inspiration from others?

Like I said before creating patches is a passion of mine but I'll still use someone elses presets in a flash if I find them musically inspiring. If you buy a synth and none of the presets fit your style I wonder why you bought the synth in the first place. It may not be best suited to your style.

No matter how good you are at creating presets you can always learn from the patches others create.

You know you can simply ignore the presets that come with a synth?

Some people simply don't have the time to create a new patch every time they load a synth or have the desire to use a patch created by the same person every time....(the Gene Pool isn't very deep with only one sound designers take on a synth).

And so on and so forth. Bottom line is no commercial synth can be a success without having presets for those people who have neither the time or experience to create their own patches or the snobbery to feel that using someone elses patches is cheating.....

who said anything about cheating?
who said anything about not having presets at all?
its as if youre missing the point completely?
the sounds that come with a synth arent the only sound a synth can make, maybe thats why i buy the synth? synths dont have a style, presets often do.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

should devs offer a preset free version of synths (or fx i guess)
im not knocking anyone who either makes or uses presets, just i personally dont use them, id rather dial in my own sounds for a particular piece then never use them again.
all to often synths are held up while we wait for patch designers to finish banks and i do often wonderr how much of the cost of a synth is to pay for presets im never going to use?
same with sample content, i like to roll my own.

so i guess im also asking should devs provide a cheaper preset free synth for those of us who dont use presets for what ever reason?

I am all for it for pretty much the same reason, Same with sample playback software like Kontakt for example, I never install the factory tosh but have it for certain libraries/instruments and my own needs. I'd be much more useful if NI sold a version that is not the crappy kontakt player version but doesn't come bloated with shit I do not want or would ever need. I am not intrested in having synth presets by "world class sound designers" - I am my own world class sonic wrecking ball so they are useless to me

Now I know some people need presets and soundbanks, Which is cool and if thats what they invest thier money in along with the bare synth/sample engine sound. But I'd rather have them available bare/nude with boots

So Yes

[Teksonik]

who said anything about not having presets at all?

I would honestly pay more for a synth which didn't have presets bundled into the DLL

Comments like that.....seems like you're missing something as well.....

its as if youre missing the point completely?

I don't think synths without presets is a valid point. You've already said you're willing to forget the price differential between a version with presets and one without. Since you can freely ignore any presets that come with a synth the only reason not to have them would be a significant discount in the price. So the point is no longer valid without a significant price differential.

synths dont have a style, presets often do.

Yes because we all know that you can get the same evolving ambient soundscape patches out of DIVA as you can Alchemy....If you want new age style ambient evolving soundscapes which would you buy? No matter how good of a programmer you are you're not going to get the same sounds out of DIVA as you can Alchemy (and vice versa as well).
So the answer has already been given.....synths are not going to be significantly cheaper without presets, developers are not going to release commercial synths without presets and you can easily ignore the the presets that come with a synth.... so really end of story.

[vurt]

so really end of story.

for you perhaps, the rest of us adults will discuss it freely, but i guess this is goodbye for you as far as this thread is concerned.
thanks for your input.

[Teksonik]

so really end of story.

for you perhaps, the rest of us adults will discuss it freely, but i guess this is goodbye for you as far as this thread is concerned.
thanks for your input.

Ahhh yes right to the insults as soon as your point is exposed as being invalid. That's very adult of you. Ok you "adults". continue on with your pointless discussion which will change nothing.....because that's what "adults" do.....

[vurt]

so really end of story.

for you perhaps, the rest of us adults will discuss it freely, but i guess this is goodbye for you as far as this thread is concerned.
thanks for your input.

Ahhh yes right to the insults as soon as your point is exposed as being invalid. That's very adult of you. Ok you "adults". continue on with your pointless discussion which will change nothing.....because that's what "adults" do.....

it wasnt an insult. if you took it that way that is your problem i guess
if i was going to insult you, i would. and id do it properly, using words like "fuckwit" perhaps
my point clearly isnt invalid, as its being discussed and even postulated upon by at least one developer.
so STFU fuckjob.
that bit was an insult

[Teksonik]

it wasnt an insult. if you took it that way that is your problem i guess
if i was going to insult you, i would. and id do it properly, using words like "fuckwit" perhaps
my point clearly isnt invalid, as its being discussed and even postulated upon by at least one developer.
so STFU fuckjob.
that bit was an insult

Good Job! Using the F word is always the sign of a mature adult with a valid argument.

as its being discussed and even postulated upon by at least one developer

You mean this quote by a developer.....err I mean a Patch Programmer who works for a developer?

Aslo please note that on Xils synths you can choose to use the factory library ... or not.

There's your answer then. Just use Xils synths and problem solved. Since like you said synths don't have a style you should be able to get any sound you want from them since apparently you are a better programmer than all the professional sound designers that developers hire.

Or you could just ignore the factory patches that all synths ship with and move on to a topic that actually makes sense......

[vurt]

apparently you are a better programmer than all the professional sound designers that developers hire.

no, i never said that, anywhere. you seem to be reading into my request something that isnt there.
the sound designers hired by developers dont cater for my needs is all, understandable as i said earlier i am in the minority, so why would a bank of sounds cater for me and alienate the majority of people?

its not about being better, its not a competition, i dont understand why this is causing you so much angst? do you feel personally insulted by my request?
ok, youre not interested in it, but that doesnt mean its a invalid point, its just means you are catered for whereas i (and by the looks of the poll and some posts here) feel we could have another option.
i dont want to take anything from you, im not expecting everyone to release all teir synths with no presets so that you end up not being catered for.

however, even if in the end it turns out that it is a pipe dream, id still like to discuss it, i like chatting about things, doesnt mean i expect change, doesnt mean ill throw a strop if nothing changes, it just means there is a conversation going on
dont like the discussion? go and find one that you are interested in maybe?

have a nice day

[Teksonik]

the sound designers hired by developers dont cater for my needs

That's the heart of the matter.....you're saying that none of the professional sound designers hired by a developer could come up with the patches you can? In any synth? Ever?
Are your needs so bizarre or simple that no talented SD would ever think of them? Only you could possibly create such masterpieces?

To me what you are saying is that none of the SDs are good enough to possibly think of what you need out of any synth. See how that sounds pompous?

To check for the validity of your point just count how many times that point has been made by how many people in all the dozen or so years that vst/i plugins have shipped with included presets.......seems like you are indeed part of the vast minority.......

[Teksonik]

id still like to discuss it, i like chatting about things, doesnt mean i expect change, doesnt mean ill throw a strop if nothing changes, it just means there is a conversation going on

Then how about a discussion about what the other sound designers are missing? What sort of patches do you need that aren't being delivered now? Seems like there would be a better chance of some change for progress in that discussion than trying to get developers to release preset free versions of their synths....something by your own admission will not reduce the cost of said plugin and that you can already accomplish by simply ignoring any included presets now.........

[Bronto Scorpio]

Maybe the sound design itself is just part (a big part) of the fun for some?

I love how people are often unable to accept that their way to do things isn't the only way.

I know a lot of people who have fun making music with presets and that's cool. I also know a lot of people who like to design the sounds for their tracks themselves and that's also cool.
And than there are people (like me) who just love to design sounds and rarely ever finish a track because that's not what the most fun for them is and that's cool too imo.

As long as people have fun there shouldn't be someone who tells them they do it wrong because that makes no sense.

Regarding the topic: It's a fun question in theory but in practice it wouldn't work. Factory sound designers don't get enough money to make a difference in the final price (most of the time they "just" get a NFR and that's perfetly fine). Developers would also have to manage multible different licenses which would maybe even increase the costs. And the patches would be shared anyway (That's just how it is).

There is already one developer who does this though: http://www.ugoaudio.com/plug-ins/rez
The synth is free but the presets are not. That's a really cool idea imo.
I'm not saying everyone should do it like that (again....just because one does it like this doesn't mean it's the ultimate way).

BUT it really does make sense for things like Kontakt. I bought it and paid for the factory lib but I never even installed it. I guess the library makes a big part of the Kontakt price....it would be nice to be able to buy it just as a sampler without the library

Cheers
Dennis

[Krakatau]

I, for one, think this as a smart limitation to invites the user to learn bases of synthesis by making his own patches himself

On that ground i voted for low prices of some plug-ins without presets...and of course, with well-written users manual included !