The Outer Limits Principle

[wagtunes]

I want a synth that can range from traditional flute sounds to this without using samples.

Zebra and/or Bazille

Watch the SFX YT video I posted and tell me Zebra and Bazille can make all those sounds.

[layzer]

as long as i got something to make those warm roland pads(PG8X) punchy vintage analog basses (Tal Elektro, minimoogV) FM Epianos (OXE) Additive metallic sounds (microTERA) classic choirs, organs and strings (M1) TR-606 drums (RMIV) and quirky sound effects (EXT2 sampler. all i need is to be creative.

one thing i am exploring with different sound creation is using a field recorder going around hitting stuff and using the sounds as attack transients on top of the standard acustic instruments in the EXT2 sampler synth. like, a wine glass struck with a fork recording layered on top of a rhodes epiano sound.

[JonSolo]

I want to address more of the question and arguments you posted...

You mentioned about going beyond the OSC OSC FIL FIL LFO FX etc...

Part of the reason that IS successful is that, really, there is no other way to make sound.

Simplified you could say Noise Source, Filter, Modulation, Environment. Everything comes down to those basic things. Our voice for example starts with air passing through a small opening to create a tone (aka OSC). Our mouths have shape and can move (aka Filter or Modulation). Finally depending on where we are, the events taking place around us, shape of the room (FX), etc...a sound is produced.

There is no other way of getting sound.

Just like there are millions of sound sources or starting points, synths (especially wavetable synths) do the same...sometimes it starts with a sample. Of course you could emulate electricity flowing through a machine causing a blade to whirl in a circle and cut air while the magnetics react to metal moving and scraping around it....but it is easier to sample that as a source.

Or we could try to play God...it has already been done in nature-

[pdxindy]

I want a synth that can range from traditional flute sounds to this without using samples.

Zebra and/or Bazille

Watch the SFX YT video I posted and tell me Zebra and Bazille can make all those sounds.

Most of them... we have the tools to do anything today... the thing is, you are not actually interested in accomplishing it.

Because what you are really asking for is not a synth that can do all those sounds, but a synth that can do all those sounds without any effort. You are really asking for a magic box that with a few turns of the dial can make any sound ever.

You may as well be asking for a Star Trek replicator or transporter. It is pure fantasy and so there is no meaningful practical discussion to be had from it.

[Ridan]

Sorry, don't have my reading glasses on so haven't gone through all of the pages here yet. If what pdxindy is saying is true in that you are looking for a synth that can make a flute sound (for example) without much effort then check out Sinnah by NUsofting.

but really most of the fun comes from designing from basic waveforms or wavetables.

[ImNotDedYet]

6 op FM w/ envelopes on the modulation, feedback and a self-resonating filter(s) and modulation capabilities on the filter(s). That's going to be one of the most flexible synths you can get.

If you make it multi-timbral, so you can layer sounds on top of each other, you're pretty close to being able to do everything you want.

If you were to allow for samples of the waveforms of the operators, you'd have a ton more flexibility.

Guess I'm describing a Sy99. Buy one used for $500, pay $100 for a programmer that has a nice big GUI. (or better yet spend $100 at the eye doctors to get better prescription lenses for the glasses you have or need, then you can use all kinds of VSTs who previously had GUIs that were too small)

Your example of long strings of bits isn't going to work because it's not a 2-D representation, it's merely a coordinate. There's a reason there are waveforms produced by oscillators. (or operators in FM) A sound wave is a continuous "curve" in time.

Now, if you wanted something completely off the beaten path sound-wise, you could do something along the lines of fractal theory with imaginary numbers representing some point in time and somehow translate the wacky graphics you see generated from fractals into a sound wave that would actually generate sound. Unfortunately, it takes a long time to calculate all that crap. But it would be pretty cool, and out there. It also highly likely would never ever sound like a flippin flute.

[Teksonik]

6 op FM w/ envelopes on the modulation, feedback and a self-resonating filter(s) and modulation capabilities on the filter(s). That's going to be one of the most flexible synths you can get.

If you make it multi-timbral, so you can layer sounds on top of each other, you're pretty close to being able to do everything you want.

Not even close but hey thanks for playing. You're still thinking waaaaay inside the box.

[aMUSEd]

I hate to be the one to say this. but based on your YT examples, ability-to-morph and no samples requirements I think I get what you are looking for. Essentially, you want what Tassman 5 was supposed to contain in terms of multiple and somewhat more advanced physical modeling "modules" [i.e. Air, Membrane, Metals, Electricity, Space, spectral,additive, etc...] with a GUI that allows each model/effect to be created using an alternate UX with parameters specific to each model. Then, there is the ability to morph between those modules -- so if there were 5 "modules" you were using, you could morph and travel between them.

Yeah but in Tassman you can't morph so easily between models and it doesn't support DAW automation. In Modelonia you can because it is basically one complex model with lots of potential instrument types. I suppose you could create something equally complex in Tassman but it would probably kill your cpu. I don't really understand Wag's refusal to consider Modelonia just because it required Kore 2 to setup the morphing, that's no different to using a DAW to automate the transitions, just a lot easier with lots of morph targets, but if he just wants to morph between Flute and scrape Modelonia could do that easily in a regular DAW with automation to manage the transition.

[wagtunes]

I want a synth that can range from traditional flute sounds to this without using samples.

Zebra and/or Bazille

Watch the SFX YT video I posted and tell me Zebra and Bazille can make all those sounds.

Most of them... we have the tools to do anything today... the thing is, you are not actually interested in accomplishing it.

Because what you are really asking for is not a synth that can do all those sounds, but a synth that can do all those sounds without any effort. You are really asking for a magic box that with a few turns of the dial can make any sound ever.

You may as well be asking for a Star Trek replicator or transporter. It is pure fantasy and so there is no meaningful practical discussion to be had from it.

Please don't make assumptions about what I want and what I'm willing to do to accomplish it. I've been programming synths for almost 40 years. You give me the tools to do what I want to do and I'll dig deep inside the synth and do the necessary programming. The reason I can't work with Reaktor is because that goes beyond programming. Now you're talking about building an actual synth. That kind of expertise is beyond me. I've made simple ensembles in Reaktor but to make what I'm looking for, I'd need to be a trained professional in DSP programming.

So stop telling me what I want and what I'm willing to do with it once I get it. I'm not looking to just turn a few knobs.

[ariston]

pdxindy has a point. The fact that you've been programming synths for 40 years (why not 80? 90? Why not cite prenatal experience while you're at it? Come to think of it, why not list all your synths again?) tells us diddly-squat. Point is, if you can't make do with what's out there (and look at the wealth of different synths out there - this is the golden age of synthesis!), then you can't blame the lack of forward-thinking devs (there are plenty), you can only blame your lack of imagination and skill.

7 pages of this drivel. Blech.

[Cinebient]

Virsyn Poseidon can do it maybe with a lot effort. The scraping metal sound could be created with tools like Reaktor Prism, not sure about the flute.
But i also dream from a tool like Sculpture 2.0. Physical modelling is the way to go here i think.
As usual i think a multi patch inside a DAW which morph between different tools can do it.
Is the solar system to small, think about galaxies, then universe...then multiverse....whatever.
But all kind of physical modelling and beyond is the thing i think we could see new aweome things in the future.

A still unknown little app f.e. impresses me. It uses a kind of physical modelling for creating real time string sounds which you can play like a "real" one and can change articualtions in real time without key switching and using large sample libraries etc. Of course the sound quality isn´t good as real samples but take these things further and combine it with engines from chromaphone, sclupture, prism, pianoteq etc. and it could be interesting. But maybe it´s more easy here too to use a DAW which let´s you do modular routings and combine all your favourite tools. I like what Bitwig does and is going to do further....

[wagtunes]

pdxindy has a point. The fact that you've been programming synths for 40 years (why not 80? 90? Why not cite prenatal experience while you're at it? Come to think of it, why not list all your synths again?) tells us diddly-squat. Point is, if you can't make do with what's out there (and look at the wealth of different synths out there - this is the golden age of synthesis!), then you can't blame the lack of forward-thinking devs (there are plenty), you can only blame your lack of imagination and skill.

7 pages of this drivel. Blech.

Who said I can't make do with what's out there? That isn't even the point. Does everybody here own just one synth? How many people here have larger synth collections than I do? Why is it okay for people here to want more than they have but not me?

The sanctimony and hypocrisy in this place is sickening and I am done with this train wreck.